Running is not that complicated. After discussing it for a couple years, what else is there to say?
Running is not that complicated. After discussing it for a couple years, what else is there to say?
reggae rob wrote:
Running is not that complicated. After discussing it for a couple years, what else is there to say?
Bingo. It's like a game and once you solve it - why bother.
Training information used to be revolutionary. Once everyone got it out there and the US stopped totally sucking, there was no need to talk training. The focus became instead - drugs.
Now that everyone is training pretty well, who is training to well.
I'm thinking about doing a piece on my time at Cornell. But it was so much easier to be successful in say 2003 than it is now. If you got a guy just reasonably good, he dominated as so many peopl were doing awful stuff. Then all of the advice got out on LetsRun/Internet and now everyone is running fast.
rojo wrote:
reggae rob wrote:Running is not that complicated. After discussing it for a couple years, what else is there to say?
Bingo. It's like a game and once you solve it - why bother.
Training information used to be revolutionary. Once everyone got it out there and the US stopped totally sucking, there was no need to talk training. The focus became instead - drugs.
Now that everyone is training pretty well, who is training to well.
I'm thinking about doing a piece on my time at Cornell. But it was so much easier to be successful in say 2003 than it is now. If you got a guy just reasonably good, he dominated as so many peopl were doing awful stuff. Then all of the advice got out on LetsRun/Internet and now everyone is running fast.
Yeah... Letsrun started the running revitalization. Not a book by Jack Daniels or anything like that. It took his 1998 book a few years to catch on but it did. I don't know a college program that doesn't consult "the formula" in some way.
Rojo, you are out of touch. I am glad you think your online drug poles are helping the running-science community but the real effort is spearheaded by long-term and systematic coaches like Daniels. Try to get your "findings" published. I am sure your methodology section would be a hit. =)
I hope that all trolls will voluntarily leave. Banning is not possible I think. However, when you ignore the troll osts there are still some good posts written on Letsrun. Even Renato Canova is still writing here.
Most threads looking for training advice just get linked to an old thread with pages if discussion.
Would love to read about your opinion on coaching then vs now.
It's up to us to create meaningful content, otherwise the vacuum will be filled by adolescent drivel. If the scholars among us did that, the trolls wouldn't find this such an exciting place to hang out.
reggae rob wrote:
Running is not that complicated. After discussing it for a couple years, what else is there to say?
That is what I was going to say.
It was cool to come on here and see many opinions and discussions on running.
But after it all has been said, you are just repeating yourself.
But the discussions now on random topics are fun.
And we can always talk about the latest results and speculate on who will be good in the future.
In 2003 you didn't have anyone like Centro, Manzano and Rupp winning medals.
2003 was all about the potential of Webb and Ritz. And that's it. And they never won any medals.
Now we talk about Mary Cain.
And Salazar is always a fun subject - love him or hate him.
In 2003 zero American men ran under 3:35 for the 1500.
Do you know Corey Leslie?
He was the 10th fastest American last year and he ran 3:34.93.
In 2003 he would have been famous.
The other discussions are here. There are just more people with more to say.
Coach of 34 track seasons,
I would love to throw rocks at Letsrun and their drug polls are horrible. However, Running Formula is not the cause of the revitalization.
"Oxygen Power" was released in 1979. While it wasn't a training guide like Running Formula, Jack wrote articles through the 80's explaining how to use it and listing training paces for different VDOT values.
My favorite was an article that had you pick a goal race and told you which types of training to do each week (and each workout to do) depending on how many weeks until the goal race. I know I used this article in the summer of 1994 but I think I had the magazine for a couple of years before that.
It is safe to say that if the running community had listened to Jack Daniels all the way along, we never would have had the drop in running performances. The coaches of the 1990's certainly knew of Jack's work and ignored it.
The question is why did they pick Jack's work up later? The answer might be that Jack came onto web sites and Jack was there debating others about training. While people like me learned more from the other side of the debate because I have always read most of what Jack has written, others bought Running Formula rather than dig around the web.
As I to enter the 35th season during which I follow track, I find Jack's paces too fast for my personal training. Without the web of the late 90's I never would have figured that out.
these 'lrc used to be better' threads always pop up in the off season when there is little to talk about in pro running.
When marathon season starts in April the boards will be much more about running, and when the diamond league starts it will move into high gear. Then after fall marathon season we will get threads like this one again.
like clockwork
I was here in 2003, and there were still a lot of off-topic posts, but there was a lot more real discussion about training as well.
I think most of those topics (benefits of LSD, etc.) were so thoroughly beaten to death that no one sees the point of discussing them here anymore.
There was also a huge vendetta against RW and the Gallowalkers. And there were more high-level, although not super-elite, runners, who would post regularly on here (Mayeroff, Wejo, David Torres and his downhill mile, etc.).
Coach of 34 track seasons wrote:
... Letsrun started the running revitalization. Not a book by Jack Daniels or anything like that. It took his 1998 book a few years to catch on but it did. I don't know a college program that doesn't consult "the formula" in some way.
Rojo, you are out of touch. I am glad you think your online drug poles are helping the running-science community but the real effort is spearheaded by long-term and systematic coaches like Daniels. Try to get your "findings" published. I am sure your methodology section would be a hit. =)
xactly. They give themselves way too much credit. Alan Webb read letsrun in the spring of 2000 and lo! what do you know he breaks 4 min and then sets the high school record!
wejo wrote:
Clearly a troll. Elites have rarely posted under their own names on here.
However, maybe we should encourage people ie pros to post under verified handles like on twitter.
Surprise, the mods doesn't take one ounce of the blame, or constructive criticism.
I agree that the pacing is too fast for some/most athletes, my seniors certainly don't think so, but for most athletes I tone it down (but still parallel to Daniels' gradients).
kartelite wrote:
There was also a huge vendetta against RW and the Gallowalkers. And there were more high-level, although not super-elite, runners, who would post regularly on here (Mayeroff, Wejo, David Torres and his downhill mile, etc.).
Mayeroff, is that the guy with the treaths?
It might also be because that demographic back then that was passionate about running doesn't run as much as they used to... but are still on here, but posting about other topics in addition to running. I know I don't run as seriously as I used to back then, and while the training threads are interesting, don't read them as avidly as I once used to. Now some of the off-topic threads are probably the reason I keep coming back.
I may be in the minority, but I enjoy Letsrun much more for all the ridiculous trolling than I ever did for running advice.
Was that really Mr. 666 Energy Drink himself? I started coming here just around the time that he was announcing his departure. I'm impressed that he stuck to it. Although I can't say I miss him.
jjjjjjjjj wrote:
The more things change, the more things stay the same:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030428021927/http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=105610&thread=105610(But most of the first page of the board that day was on running.
H20 wrote:
I blame crossfit. In 2004 there was no crossfit so you can easily see how the demise of the LRC boards has come about. Blame crossfit.
BS. CrossFit and CrossFit Endurance have since revolutionized the way we look at (running) training. Hardly anyone was doing HIIT/Tabata style workouts, heavy weight lifting and switched their style to POSE prior to the advent of CrossFit.
10 years later, even Renato Salazar is using these methods.
Gotta disagree with you. Renato Canova still tries to post about revolutionary stuff on here, but all he gets in response are troll posts accusing him of doping his athletes. Think of how many luminaries used to post here who've since left.