Renato Canova - can you please tell us more about Caleb Ndiku

Congratulations to you and Caleb for yet another victory. And thanks for your exceptional willingness to share your coaching techniques.

Renato Canova wrote:The most impressive competition of the season, in my opinion, was not the final, but the heat, when Caleb won easily with 7'42"75 using only 70% of his energy.

This year must be the season for the final transfer to 5000m, without forgetting 1500m (but 5000m is the race of his future).

Many thanks for posting Renato

I also noticed the ease of that prelim.

He seemed to just jog around & then blasted the finish.

I expected to see 7'50+ on the clock, but 7'42 was a shock !

It looked pretty obvious he could have gone well below 7'30 if that had been a paced effort on circuit & that can't be far off 7'25 outdoors.

What I'm wondering is, why so quick move to 5k ?

The kid is only 21y, has great power for a kenyan & already run 3'29.5 !!!

The 1500 is weak behind Asbel, with only Soulemain much of a threat & he still hasn't broken 3'30.

Caleb would easily be 2nd best 1500 guy around currently & Asbel is unpredictable.

You said last year you thought his 800 speed was 1'46/1'47, but I reckon he must have been faster than that to go 3'29.5 ( perhaps you were basing his 800 on his previous 1500pb of 3'32 ? )

His kick is great & looking at his size/physique, I can't see him being any worse than 1'44/1'45.

On top of that, his outdoor 3k looks to be somewhere in 7'25/7'27.5/7'30 range.

So, his current possibilities for 1500/5k could be

1'45.0 / 7'30.0 ->3'30.25 , 13'06.23

1'45.0 / 7'27.5 ->3'29.66 , 13'00.46

1'45.0 / 7'25.0 ->3'29.06 , 12'54.68

1'44.5 / 7'30.0 ->3'29.76 , 13'07.44

1'44.5 / 7'27.5 ->3'29.16 , 13'01.66

1'44.5 / 7'25.0 ->3'28.57 , 12'55.89

1'44.0 / 7'25.0 ->3'29.27 , 13'08.65

1'44.0 / 7'27.5 ->3'28.67 , 13'02.87

1'44.0 / 7'25.0 ->3'28.08 , 12'57.09

My eye is drawn to 2 possibilities currently, bearing in mind you said he took his debut 5k, 13'03, "easy" & could have gone much faster :

1'45.0 / 7'25.0 ->3'29.06 , 12'54.68

1'44.5 / 7'25.0 ->3'28.57 , 12'55.89

I'm pretty sure he has to be currently in something like

3'28-high/3'29-flat shape, but his 5k is not earth shattering at ~ 12'55

Why not persuade him to concentrate on 1500 for at least a couple more years ?

You can run a very fast 1500m preparing 5000m, but can't run a fast 5000m preparing 1500m.

The key of training is to increase the SPECIFIC SPEED ENDURANCE, not the speed.

Caleb doesn't have the speed for running a fast 800m coming from short training. His value in 400m may be about 49.0 at his best on a Kenyan track, that means 48.5 on a sintetic track.

With this speed, he can run under 1'46", but never 1'44".

But he has a natural high aerobic level. Don't forget he won WCC, when junior, and in the same year 1500m on track.

Last year, for training, we planned in two following days to run 1500m (he won in 3'41") and 10000m (completely alone, 28'38") in Kenya, already looking at 5000m.

He did a mistake going for 1500m in Kenyan Trials, thinking easier to qualify, but at the end, also if defeated Birgen, he was not selected. His shape was good, and immediately after Trials he ran 3'29"50 in 1500m.

However, in my opinion is for him more difficult to win a medal in 1500m than in the longer distance.

In training, the limit is not in what you do, but in what you DON'T DO.

Preparing 5000m, we continue to use sessions of speed, not faster than before, but with more volume at the same speed. This system can make the athlete more "specifically" resistant, so also better in the shorter distance.

For athletes aerobically very strong, to look at the improvement of speed as main goal is, in my opinion, a methodological mistake.

For example, I think this was the limit of Alan Webb, and the fact he was not able to win a medal in 2007 in WCh is due to his 1'43"7 in 800m, which put in his mind the idea to be "fast". Never Webb won a race with the final sprint, instead he could win using a progression in the last 2 laps, not having the ability to change speed quickly in a tactical race.

I didn't coach any more Silas Kiplagat, because he wanted to become faster (running 1'44"7 800m), forgetting the aerobic part of training. He was able, at his beginning, to run 28' flat in 10 km, now no faster than 30'.

For me, the evolution of training is to ADD what you don't have, not to REPLACE what you already have.

And, when there is confusion in the final goal, I'm not interested in one athlete, because never he can be able to reach his best.

Renato Canova wrote:Caleb doesn't have the speed for running a fast 800m coming from short training. His value in 400m may be about 49.0 at his best on a Kenyan track, that means 48.5 on a sintetic track.

With this speed, he can run under 1'46", but never 1'44"

you forget how quick these guys can be for 800 when they actually run a serious one

choge had an ancient 1'48.7pb & when he finally ran a serious 800 he went 1'44.8 !!!

as for caleb, i certainly agree 48.5 woud be a sensible figure for his current 400 ability ( albeit i'd estimate a dirt track being 1s slower - so 49.5 in kenya )

48.5 speed with likely current 12'55/13'00 ->

48.5 / 12'55 - 13'00 ->

1'44.41 - 1'44.63

3'28.37 - 3'29.15

4'45.51 - 4'46.79

7'24.52 - 7'26.92

i think you woud be surprised at his 800 ability if you put him in a diamond league 800 this year, but more importantly let him have a few shots at 1500, after all, the 1500 is the most prestigious event...

Thank you, Renato. I haven't yet read past your original post on this thread, but wanted to immediately show gratitude for you showing willingness to offer insight like this.

Northern man wrote:

Thanks for the info, Mr. Canova.

It is most impressive to me that Ndiku can do training of some quality every single day. In these two weeks, the only two days that don't contain any quality running are the last two days before the prelim. How is the athlete able to recover so well while doing something meaningful each day? If most athletes tried to do a schedule like this, they would end up too fatigued or injured, because there are no easy days. Has Ndiku got some extra ability to recover? Or are the hill sprints, fartleks, and moderate runs done at an easy enough effort to allow him to recover despite having that quality on those days?

I'm just taking a stab at this...Canova, correct me if I'm wrong. The way I see it is that his 40' doubles are his easy recovery runs. I wouldn't be surprised if he does these at 8min mile pace or even slower. He won't really get any aerobic benefit out of it, it's more so to get the blood flowing and being in the motion of running because after all....practice makes perfect, right?

Secondly, I'd assume that those "moderate" hourly runs are just normal running for him. These runs are to maximize his aerobic potential without redlining. So I'd think these are runs that he does where he never goes over his lactate threshold. Yes, it can be taxing but physiologically these runs aren't going to put him over the edge for the next days work, especially if he's jogging really easy later in the day.

As for hill sprints I'd assume they are close to all out with good form. It would almost seem pointless to kinda just do them doing at an easy effort...kinda defeats the purpose of them. Yes it's taxing, but read up on motor unit thresholds and the size principle. It's not something that's going to take away from the later workouts...unless maybe they are done everyday.

Anyways, those are my two cents. Not sure if those are the exact reasons but just my guesses so take it for what it is.

Thank you so much for sharing this. It's very interesting and cool to see. I'd love to see 1 or 2 weeks of his training from other months, like November/December and January. Is it possible for you to share this?

For athletes as Caleb, "regeneration run" has the task to help the recovery, diminishing the level of lactate in the muscle fibers, and doesn't mean real training.

However, there is an "optimal" speed for regeneration.

It's not true that slower you run, less fatigue you do.

Your idea of 8' per mile is wrong : for a world class athlete, able running 5 km at 2'35" per km, or HM at 2'48" per km, running slower than 4' per km means to increase the level of fatigue, because the ammortization phase becomes longer, the contact time with the ground too, and the athlete has to use more eccentric strength. In this case, the elastic reactivity practically doesn't exist, and everything depends on the voluntary action of the contractil fibers.

The easy run for top runners is, normally, about 3'50" / 4' per km (6'15" / 6'30" per mile). This is not "training", not having any impact on the organic system.

About the short sprint uphill, these must Always be done at max speed (otherwise are not SPRINT). Since the reason is to maintain the ability to recruit the higher possible percentage of fast fibers, sprint must be at the max possible speed, otherwise the recruitment is not effective.

What people must understand is that the LOAD of every session must be connected with the real level of every athlete. What seems hard for a runner good for 15' or 16' in 5000m, can be easy for a top athlete. I suggest to calculate the percentage of speed, related with the PB in the top event (in this case 5000m).

In the case of Caleb, if I look for 12'50" (2'34" per km), I can have the following percentage of time per km :

100% = 2'34"

90% = (2'34" + 15"4) = 2'49"4

80% = (2'34" + 30"8) = 3'04"8

70% = (2'34" + 46"2) = 3'20"2

60% = (2'34" + 61"6) = 3'35"6

50% = (2'34" + 77"0) = 3'51"

Every speed slower than 50% of this calculation IS NOT TRAINING, and the athlete can find his best situation in order to feel himself better. This is the reason we call that speed "REGENERATION".

Thanks Renato for sharing this information and your expertise. A thread like this is the reason why most serious athletes/coaches visit these pages for the pearls of wisdom which you regularly contribute. Some great insight also from Ventolin. Excellent thread.

Renato, what's the approximate moderate pace for Caleb?

Mr. Canova

Can you please share with us your opinion on how Bernard Lagat raced for silver and he was able to finish faster then Gebremeskel and almost Ndiku of 20 years younger. How long do you think he can continue to compete at this level as he ages?

Webb did win at least two races where he took charge in the final sprint and showed a nice change of gears.

i'm confused here.

i'm of the opinion you don't win a championship at 1500 without at least 144 flat 800 speed. and 143 is better.

now 142, that's excessive. look at history.

webb on the other hand was only in top shape briefly and was kind of a head case in experimenting all the time with tactics. i would not use him as any kind of example.

silas is the mystery man who ran 331 in kenya at altitude on what kind of track i don't know. he never gets it right.

i'd want silas to run 48 flat 400m and be able to run 28 mid 10k at altitude. that would be a good idea.

i'm curious what renaldo thinks that sebastian coe could run for 1500 if he had focused his training on that event?

regarding sprint training, super fast and super relaxed is a good way to do it - kind of like how bolt runs a heat as opposed to a final. right? sure.

Mr. Canova, I would like to ask you a question about the "regeneration".

In the Italian school of the long and middle distance are planned unloaded weeks (7-10 days) ?

I remember the programs of G. Lenzi for Pizzolato before his first victory in New York (1984). A few weeks before the marathon he took a week of unloading with low miles and only runs of regeneration at 3'50-4'/Km. From then he had a remarkable supercompensation and he put together a series of great workouts until the victory in New York.

I was wondering if other coaches of the Italian school as you, Gigliotti, Rondelli, Polizzi use these unloaded weeks of "regeneration" (I am not referring to the pre-race taper).

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Renato Canova wrote:In the case of Caleb, if I look for 12'50" (2'34" per km), I can have the following percentage of time per km :

100% = 2'34"

Renato

I'd be interested in what you think Caleb could go for 5k this year.

Above you suggest 12'50, whilst I used a conservative 12'55.

Do you think he is in ~ 12'50 shape currently ?

Are you also confident in his current ~ 48.5 shape ?

If so, his current ability could be awesome !

48.5 / 12'50 ->

1'44.19

3'27.58 !

4'44.24 !

7'22.13 !

I really hope you work on his basic 400 speed in next couple of years ( weight-training as mo did to build up his legendary speed ) & from his youth, he should be able to keep his supposed 12'50

If you can find him 1/2s of 400 speed he is approaching WR territory for 1500 :

48.0 / 12'50 ->

1'43.46

3'26.69 !!

4'43.33 !!

7'21.37 !!

Please don't neglect his speed training

Not many coaches have ever had a chance to train a viable threat to the 1500 WR & you have a chance

I suppose the ultimate limit for him would be to get his 5k down to 12'45 & keep that basic speed :

If he ever got 48.0 / 12'45 simultaneously, he woud be a definite threat to the 1500 WR ( but I'm not posting those unless asked ! )

What would be your hope for his 400/5k ability in say 3 or 4y ?

ventolin^3 wrote:

If he ever got 48.0 / 12'45 simultaneously, he woud be a definite threat to the 1500 WR ( but I'm not posting those unless asked ! )

What would be your hope for his 400/5k ability in say 3 or 4y ?

Although I don't believe ventolin's calculator to be always accurate, I would like to know Renato's goals as well

Either way Mo better have a good marathon debut if he wants 2 shots at gold in Rio

Oh look, it's the insane basement-dwelling human calculator telling a world class running coach how to train his athletes.