A new career for the USTAF officials: figure skating judges.
Our sport has reached a new low.
A new career for the USTAF officials: figure skating judges.
Our sport has reached a new low.
Nike Oregon athletes are the lowest of the low. Hasay won't do the right thing. Salazar is the sleaziest of the sleazy. Decker was a cheat. Salazar is a cheat. Rupp had no speed and is now a world beater. I am ashamed that NOP is the face of American track and it seems they are all cheaters. If Hasay had any scruples she would give up her spot. But she doesn't. A den of thieves.
The sport of track and field is marginal as it is - meaning that it hardly makes sense for the participants to engage it after their university endeavors. This incident makes it all the more so.
Why is Salazar and Nike pushing so hard here? Hasay is a 10,000 meter runner. She doesn't have the wheels for the shorter distances. This is no knock on her, it is just the way it is. Given her fine NCAA cross country performances, she could be a very good 10,000 meter runner, albeit perhaps not at the top of the international ranks. These shorter indoor races are exactly the kind of races that, let's say, a Frank Shorter would run as a tune-up, and get racing experience. Shorter, like Hasay, would often get hammered in these races, but so what? They are good racing experiences. So why the pressure to get Hasay on the team to run in an event that is at best a sideline for her? I assume it is all about exposure, and TV time, and the Nike brand, and, of course, a certain coach's ego, but really, is anyone going to be all that surprised if this young athlete never breaks 31 minutes for 10,000 meters, even though she has the talent and lightness of frame to do so?
If these are the rules of the game for an aspiring top level college athlete, i.e., you must play with Nike money or you cannot prosper, well, then, I would argue that it is time to go get that graduate degree in physical therapy, or take that accounting job, or whatever, because if this is the crash and burn reality in the sport, forget it - it makes no sense.
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Excellent post, agree 100%.
Some people seem to think that Gabe deserves the win simply because she was obviously in better shape than anyone else and the contact occured so far from the finish.
But the call, one way or the other, is what matters, right? It's like an absent-minded, silly foul at the end of a basketball game that swings the game in the other team's favor.
It seems to me the real judgement in this specific case is not about the character of Alberto or Gabe, and it isn't about the issues with having one company dominate the sport. In this specific case, isn't it just the call? Either Hasay was slowing down quickly enough that Gabe couldn't avoid nipping her, or Gabe sped up without giving herself enough room and interfered with Hasay as a result. That's the call.
Of course, the secondary issue is that the officials seem to have reversed their call in an illegitimate way due to pressure indicative of corruption. That's certainly a much bigger issue for the sport. (Again, looking at basketball, whether or not you agree with a controversial call, refs can't be changing their minds hours after the game ends.)
It seems to me that the officials made a call, they decided in Gabe's favor, and they should have stuck with that call. Having said that, looking at the actual call, I can't help but feel like Gabe was at fault. It's a difficult call, but that's how I would have ruled.
And rules are rules, as tragic as the repurcussions may be. (I was really rooting for Gabe.)
the sport is marginal wrote:
The sport of track and field is marginal as it is - meaning that it hardly makes sense for the participants to engage it after their university endeavors. This incident makes it all the more so.
Why is Salazar and Nike pushing so hard here? Hasay is a 10,000 meter runner. She doesn't have the wheels for the shorter distances. This is no knock on her, it is just the way it is. Given her fine NCAA cross country performances, she could be a very good 10,000 meter runner, albeit perhaps not at the top of the international ranks. These shorter indoor races are exactly the kind of races that, let's say, a Frank Shorter would run as a tune-up, and get racing experience. Shorter, like Hasay, would often get hammered in these races, but so what? They are good racing experiences. So why the pressure to get Hasay on the team to run in an event that is at best a sideline for her? I assume it is all about exposure, and TV time, and the Nike brand, and, of course, a certain coach's ego, but really, is anyone going to be all that surprised if this young athlete never breaks 31 minutes for 10,000 meters, even though she has the talent and lightness of frame to do so?
If these are the rules of the game for an aspiring top level college athlete, i.e., you must play with Nike money or you cannot prosper, well, then, I would argue that it is time to go get that graduate degree in physical therapy, or take that accounting job, or whatever, because if this is the crash and burn reality in the sport, forget it - it makes no sense.
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clearly this is more about al sal than about hasay - he just had two of his best thoroughly OUTKICKED! By a second tier runner for a second tier shoe company! After all the attention Al Sal puts on the last lap, this was just shocking to him. He couldn't accept it. Al Sal's drive to win took over and started protesting.
Point is, it's about pride, not JH's chances in Poland.
I use think that to, but a 846 and 426 (last 6 months) are on the all time American list for 3k and the mile. At this point I wouldn't want to discourage a athlete with that kind of talent. She not cain or simpson, come on 426 is a very very good mile time? Who knows the future? Prejudging is not fair to any athlete.
Go back and look at the video again. How can you not see that Gabe has position on the inside of lane one, and Hasay moves from the outside edge of lane one toward the inside, and collides with Gabe?
Gabe is holding her position.
Hasay is not. She's all over lane one throughout the race. Even on the curves.
Hasay initiates the contact. It's as simple and obvious as that. But, you don't file an appeal when you win the race in spite of being impeded.
adfaf wrote:
Some people seem to think that Gabe deserves the win simply because she was obviously in better shape than anyone else and the contact occured so far from the finish.
But the call, one way or the other, is what matters, right? It's like an absent-minded, silly foul at the end of a basketball game that swings the game in the other team's favor.
It seems to me the real judgement in this specific case is not about the character of Alberto or Gabe, and it isn't about the issues with having one company dominate the sport. In this specific case, isn't it just the call? Either Hasay was slowing down quickly enough that Gabe couldn't avoid nipping her, or Gabe sped up without giving herself enough room and interfered with Hasay as a result. That's the call.
Of course, the secondary issue is that the officials seem to have reversed their call in an illegitimate way due to pressure indicative of corruption. That's certainly a much bigger issue for the sport. (Again, looking at basketball, whether or not you agree with a controversial call, refs can't be changing their minds hours after the game ends.)
It seems to me that the officials made a call, they decided in Gabe's favor, and they should have stuck with that call. Having said that, looking at the actual call, I can't help but feel like Gabe was at fault. It's a difficult call, but that's how I would have ruled.
And rules are rules, as tragic as the repurcussions may be. (I was really rooting for Gabe.)
The call was there was NO foul, TWICE. What aren't people understanding about this? It's really quite simple.
well at least public opinion has now fully turned and Salazar, NOP and USATF are on their last legs.
This debacle has made it obvious to 99% of the public how things actually work, and the public has shown its distaste by condemning, en masse, these ridiculous players.
The sad part is that Jordan and other NOP athletes have now lost their fan base and marketability. It is unlikely they will get into international races anymore as meet organizers are sick of these antics.
Crazy all 'round, but at least everyone now sees the problems in the sport and is united in wanting them fixed.
opklu78 wrote:
4)GG is a cancer survivor victim.
Meanwhile poor Jordan is caught in the middle of this mess.
She is a cancer survivor victim ? She's a victim of cancer survival ? What does that even mean ? Tje fact that she is a "cancer survivor victim" has nothing to do with the controversy.
I don't know about pre-judging Hasay. Perhaps she will become a 30 minute 10,000 meter runner some day. But I do know this. She seems like a nice, intelligent and talented young woman who most anyone would want in terms of a daughter, sister, relative or friend. But from the insane Salazar post race workout videos to her poignant yet depressed demeanor sitting on the third lane of the curve of the track after the race, she doesn't come across as someone who is happy. And having to keep quiet in the midst of this scandal can only make her feel worse - people are generally happier and balanced when they can be open - and this is assuredly not the case here. Again, back to my point - this is the promise that distance running in a post university setting holds? I wonder if Salazar and her Nike crew really ever asked her whether she wanted to appeal, and whether they mentioned to her the rather obvious public relations consequences which would obtain? I highly doubt it. She is likely walking away from this feeling she owns little of her own endeavors. And this is supposed to lead to long term success?
"I think that’s what it’s all about: friendships of sport. If you’re going to be an A-hole to others during your running career then you’re not going to have many friends when you retire." ~Rod Dixon
This quote from a running great, admired by a young guy, would unfortunately apply to BOTH women. Salazar... the Thesaurus does not cover the words needed to accurately describe him.
Dennis Barker wrote:
you never know how good wrote:You obviously did not watch the race carefully. That is, the entire race. Watch the ENTIRE race and see how dirty Grunewald played. She was elbowing and clipping all along, a strategy only an obscene coach would admire.
Now to the coach. Why would you teach her such tactics? Please tell us coach? You gonna keep those clipping techniques in charge? Or are you going to teach your runners the professional way and how to "RUN AROUND" the runner like a professional. Tell us coach, we're waiting for your response.
Hi, Team USA Minnesota coach Dennis Barker here. Believe it or not, I don't coach any defensive tactics. You have an unbelievable imagination. I only tell my runners to be prepared for whatever comes their way in a crowded indoor race. Obviously, Alberto Salazar takes a different approach, preparing his athletes mainly with rabbited, intra-team time trials.
If Jordan thinks this is bad, she is in for a HELL of a wake-up call when she starts running in some international meets, which it looks like she'll be doing. That is, if she keeps up with the pack.
Best,
-Coach DB
Coach,
If this is really you, stay above the fray. I understand your frustration and you should certainly defend your athlete(s), but you should leave the Hasay comments out of it. Hasay has run in international meets... she ran multiple races in Europe last summer as well as the World Championships. Secondly, NOP does run time trials, but they run plenty of "races" as well.
BTW, I don't think GG should have been DQ'd and Salazar influence on USATF is disturbing.
Good luck getting GG reinstated.
MAUI_krazy8 wrote:
"I think that’s what it’s all about: friendships of sport. If you’re going to be an A-hole to others during your running career then you’re not going to have many friends when you retire." ~Rod Dixon
This quote from a running great, admired by a young guy, would unfortunately apply to BOTH women. Salazar... the Thesaurus does not cover the words needed to accurately describe him.
Very true what Dixon said. Kareem Abdul Jabbar was a petulant child to members of the media and everyone else when he played during his brilliant career. And that is one of the biggest reasons he can't get a coaching job today. Be kind to everyone on the way to the top because you won't always be at the top.
J.R. wrote:
Hasay should run worlds and NOT give up her position.
GG was rightfully DQ'd, sad but all her own doing.
o really? wrote:
fu#k off already-- hasay was clipped at best. The only contact that she had with GG was with her foot. Go watch the video.
Besides, that doesn't happen in races? Ever? This is the first time someone's ever gotten clipped in a race? Please.
I have changed my mind. I think that Gabe intentionally stepped on Jordan's foot, and then did the same thing to Shannon. Her actions afterward, thanking god for helping her to put out the other runners and advance, and her husband's bragging about being a doctor smacks of entitlement and their attitude that any means justifies the results.
I am not sad at all that GG was DQ'd and hope officials take a much sharper look at her tactics in the future.
Thank goodness for Nike and Al Salazar standing up against her ongoing blatant infractions. As to those who stand up for that type of nonsense, you need to grow up.
opklu78 wrote:
Why would Hasay want to give up her spot? These girls compete like wolves all year for this position. She was run over like a train by GG the wild woman
The reason for this overreaction is clear, 1) Everyone is disgruntled with USATF, 2) Everyone does not like NIKE (surprising since they basically sponsor the sport) and 3) nobody likes Alberto Salazar, and 4)GG is a cancer survivor victim.
Meanwhile poor Jordan is caught in the middle of this mess.
Hey brojos can we get an IP match here, I'm tired of reading the official nike talking points.
J.R. wrote:
...thanking god for helping her to put out the other runners and advance...
Did she? I can't stand athletes who thank God in their post-race interviews. Go Hasay!
It was so obvious that there was no interference from the video that this whole thing is totally ridiculous and should never have gotten this far. And Jordan, if she has any morals should speak up and tell the truth. She knows.
runuke wrote:
It was so obvious that there was no interference from the video that this whole thing is totally ridiculous and should never have gotten this far. And Jordan, if she has any morals should speak up and tell the truth. She knows.
It doesn't matter what Hasay says or thinks. It doesn't matter if there was interference or whether it was DQ worthy. I don't know why these debates are still going on.
An earlier poster has it right -- the issue is that USATF is not following its own rules and has offered no explanation for its actions. No foul was ruled twice, and then those rulings were inexplicably overturned citing a vague rule that involves "enhanced video" evidence, which has not been described to or shown to the public.
You can say it's a sign of Nike corruption if you want, but that's really jumping the gun. USATF is the one that should be the target of public and media pressure right now; not Nike (at least not yet).