Geez, 4:24 at 45 is flying! What is the guy doing? PED?
Geez, 4:24 at 45 is flying! What is the guy doing? PED?
Ajax wrote:
Shith wrote:I come from John Trautmann's old stomping grounds (Orange County, NY), and despite being around cross country and track my entire life, I have never encountered anything as impressive as Trautmann's Bear Mountain course record. A lot of great runners have come through downstate NY, and his record is a complete obliteration of all comers. It was unfathomable for all of us clods struggling to break 16:00 on the course. That dude was a legend; I was heartbroken as a kid watching him have to pull off the track in the Olympics. It doesn't surprise me one bit that he still has the fire and talent to crank out a fast time after decades of retirement.
Good for him, glad he's still able to lace them up after his injury struggles.
14:24 at Bear Mountain is crazy.
He still holds the course record for HS boys at Saratoga State Park upstate, Section 2's normal sectional course in years where they don't host states. Back in the 80s states was there though which is where Trautmann set it. Section 2 is a perennial powerhouse in NYS cross country so it's saying something that 30 years on, his 14:35 record still stands. Murdock came within about a second of it a few years ago now but the record survived.
I wonder how many course records Trautmann still has.
He ran that 14:35 at Saratoga as a junior, winning by over 30 seconds...probably would've been sub-14:30 as a senior. He also went 15:44 in horrible conditions at Sunken Meadow...probably would've threatened Gregorek's former CR there had it been a dry day. Speaking of Gregorek, he's #2 on the all-time Bear Mountain list, almost 20 seconds behind Trautmann's CR.
Even in h.s. he had to deal with some injury and sickness issues...not an excuse because that happens to a lot of runners, but it would've been interesting to see what more he might've been able to do if close to 100% healthy.
nice to see so many masters guys cooking
castille...I worry about. He seems head and shoulders better than everyone else. I know he is on fresher legs than most, but still - he just seems implausibly fast.
Too bad there's no video of the race on USATF.tv - Seems masters runners are at the bottom of the food chain.
That's a wow time for age 45!!
Question: assuming that his PR is 4:00, is a 24 second/mile slow down impressive or about average (PR to age 45)?
Another way to look at the race, do some of the other runners in the same race have even smaller slow downs from their PRs?
I'm asking if anyone knows. I really have no idea.
Personal data: I'm a hobby jogger now at age 51 and my mile slow down is 40 seconds, maybe it would be 30 seconds if I were training for a mile.
Every year Rockland County holds an Alumni Race at Bear Mountain, which Monroe Woodbury always shows up at with about 45 people, Trautman ran 14:08 there back in '94, which is just insanely fast. The course is slower today than it was before a storm in '03 but still, sub 14 guys have failed to crack 15 on that course before.
Anyway, it's great to see him (and Nohilly) getting back at it in their mid/late 40s and doing so well!
Arete wrote:
That's a wow time for age 45!!
Question: assuming that his PR is 4:00, is a 24 second/mile slow down impressive or about average (PR to age 45)?
Another way to look at the race, do some of the other runners in the same race have even smaller slow downs from their PRs?
I'm asking if anyone knows. I really have no idea.
Personal data: I'm a hobby jogger now at age 51 and my mile slow down is 40 seconds, maybe it would be 30 seconds if I were training for a mile.
using an age grade calculator (but not necessarily accounting for indoors), trautmann seems to have maintained approximately 93% going back to his 8:44 2 mile in h.s., his 3:58i at around 23yo, and his 4:24 at 45yo., so i suppose his slowdown would be the definition of average.
the impressive part of his performance, though, is john sticking with it after what sounds like years of injury and sickness issues when most others simply would have quit...
An interesting note..looking at the NY state High school class records, this is about the same time he ran in 1983 when he set the NY state freshman record.
that grimace...
Arete wrote:
That's a wow time for age 45!!
Question: assuming that his PR is 4:00, is a 24 second/mile slow down impressive or about average (PR to age 45)?
He ran 4:24 as a 14 year old. His mile PR is well under 4 minutes (not sure exactly what it was) and 13:20 for 5K, so 4:24 at age 45 is impressive but not unreasonable.
intrinsic wrote:
Arete wrote:That's a wow time for age 45!!
Question: assuming that his PR is 4:00, is a 24 second/mile slow down impressive or about average (PR to age 45)?
He ran 4:24 as a 14 year old. His mile PR is well under 4 minutes (not sure exactly what it was) and 13:20 for 5K, so 4:24 at age 45 is impressive but not unreasonable.
interesting way to look at it. I'm trautmann's age and have only lost 15 seconds. But I never trained like he did as a teenager.
Penn Fann wrote:
Geez, 4:24 at 45 is flying! What is the guy doing? PED?
I frequently see him workout. In addition to being world class when he was younger, he is currently training like a maniac. When he finishes an interval, he looks like he is in agonizing pain, almost near death. Then he composes himself and keeps doing more intervals. When talent works hard, expect amazing results...
intrinsic wrote:
Arete wrote:That's a wow time for age 45!!
Question: assuming that his PR is 4:00, is a 24 second/mile slow down impressive or about average (PR to age 45)?
He ran 4:24 as a 14 year old. His mile PR is well under 4 minutes (not sure exactly what it was) and 13:20 for 5K, so 4:24 at age 45 is impressive but not unreasonable.
his 4:24 as a 14 yo puts him right around 92-93% age grade along with his other marks (i would have guessed it was higher)...
yyy wrote:
he is not a dopper
Haile Gebrselassie was doped to his little eyeballs lol. Boy did his performances drop off once EPO testing became more than just a threat. Sub 13 second 5k in a 10? Then what happened to his and his cohort's abilities? Not quite as strong as that ever again, eh? Not even the younger guys.
OK. you got a point. Bekele?
I agree with both your points! Age grade is an interesting way to look at it.
He is now where one would expect a person of his talent. And yet, we all know lots of things happen over the years too.
Who would you take, Mary Cain vs John Trautman in a mile race?