How would you go about building a new HS dynasty?

The conditions you face would change how you need to approach the situation. So, you can't really give one simplistic answer and assume it will work everywhere, in every situation.

What's worked for me; My top 10

1. Large school in a supportive community no matter what the activity/sport/academic endeavor.

2. Great cross section of student culture, economics etc... Support them all year, not just in track.

3. I've had damned good assistant coaches in track which I have had to recruit and replace on occasion but won't settle for just a warm body.

4. Lots of goals for everyone at all levels short term and long term. Stepping stones and positive reinforcement for doing things the right way.

5. Team approach to track and field at all times. It's easier to get everyone to contribute. Win by an inch or win by a mile but a win is a win. Team wins, everyone wins even if you didn't score, you tried and were part of the team.

6. Special opportunities for those that have worked up to the elite level. Treat your non-varsity teams as if they are important and that their efforts are appreciated. They are the future. Attend Jr. High meets and talk to the kids personally. Be nice.

7. Support all other sports on campus and demand that your athletes do. Very challenging when FB feels everyone should bow down to them but they don't have a record to back up the big talk. In the end, the kids want to win state titles in something before they leave hs and tf at our place has given them the best chance consistently for many years.

8. Teach your athletes about the history of the sport and the great athletes and performances that have occured. Keep them posted on current events. Give them reading materials and links, media etc... to view for themselves.

9. Create an environment that shows the rest of the campus you are there. Locker room decorations, data, records,meet results, pictues of kids competing, newspaper articles etc... Post home meet banners and invite the student body and staff to attend home meets.

10. Get your parents to be your biggest supporters by keeping them informed and how they can help. Good experiences and communication goes a long way with parents and they will be talking to other parents.

You need a good number of runners. You need to inspire and motivate those runners. You need to know what you are doing and coach them to reach their potential.

Honestly I think coaching high school kids to success is about the easiest thing in life. I come from a very dominant high school program. The coaching was pretty poor and we didn't have a huge number of kids come out. All we did was run more than everyone else, and by run more all I mean is 50-70mpw. That alone was enough for us to trounce everyone else year in and year out. A rival school started getting good and produced a few studs. When I talked to one of the runners, all he said was the coach increased their mileage from 20mpw to 50mpw. Everything else stayed the same. It's so simple you don't even have to do anything else.

Coaches try to make things complicated and end up just burning out their runners. All you need to do is get them to run mileage, race once a week, and do one or two medium effort workouts a week on top of that and you're golden. Funny how few people can figure that out.

Now why didn't I think of that?

In areas where the depth of quality is much better than you describe, it's not as easy as you might think.

[quote]Guppy wrote:

You need a good number of runners. You need to inspire and motivate those runners. You need to know what you are doing and coach them to reach their potential.

Honestly I think coaching high school kids to success is about the easiest thing in life. I come from a very dominant high school program. The coaching was pretty poor and we didn't have a huge number of kids come out. All we did was run more than everyone else, and by run more all I mean is 50-70mpw. That alone was enough for us to trounce everyone else year in and year out. A rival school started getting good and produced a few studs. When I talked to one of the runners, all he said was the coach increased their mileage from 20mpw to 50mpw. Everything else stayed the same. It's so simple you don't even have to do anything else.

Coaches try to make things complicated and end up just burning out their runners. All you need to do is get them to run mileage, race once a week, and do one or two medium effort workouts a week on top of that and you're golden. Funny how few people can figure that out.[/

quote]

I agree that coaching isn't neurosurgery however it's more difficult than you make it. That or your league is much easier than others. Simply running 50-70 miles per week won't win a state championship in Washington state let alone a league championship in Spokane.

Excellent post - thank you. Here in GA we're drowning in the excuse mentality from coaches. Anyone who points out how poorly GA teams fare vs. elite out of state competition is tarred & feathered.. These guys just won't admit that it's all about coaching and smart, effective training. Easier to whine about lack of X, where X can be $$, # of kids on the team, weather (?), success of other fall sports, parents, etc., etc.

I know of more than a few teams that have had great success (state championships/local dominance/national qualifiers) from small schools with few resources or without an athletically inclined student body. The common denominator is a great coach. My HS team never had more than 11 or 12 guys on the entire cross team, freshman to senior, and we were very successful. Out of those 11 guys, our varsity 7 would all be sub-17 guys with 1 or 2 sub-16 guys among them. It's all about coaching and building a tradition of excellence attained through hard work and a love for the sport.

IN guy wrote:

My HS team never had more than 11 or 12 guys on the entire cross team, freshman to senior, and we were very successful. Out of those 11 guys, our varsity 7 would all be sub-17 guys with 1 or 2 sub-16 guys among them. It's all about coaching and building a tradition of excellence attained through hard work and a love for the sport.

Wow just imagine if your coach would've recruited! Getting 64% under 17 and 18% under 16 is remarkable! If he got 50 kids out 9 would've broke 16 and 32 would've broke 17. That would be a potential national championship team but a NXN team without question.

I would start a high school fencing or curling team. We would be dominant and destroy everyone for at least 5 years.

Strange, you sound just like Gratis or CoachBilly from milesplit...

Do what Pat Tyson did with Mead High School

Mead wrote:

Do what Pat Tyson did with Mead High School

This. Follow any of the coaches of the dynasty programs. Newton. Aris. O'Brien. Knight. Etc. But Tyson may be best since he had success at more than one HS. Tyson has a new book out. Get it and read it. I know he developed a pyramid of success similar to John Wooden. He isn't afraid to coach at schools with no previous winning xc tradition (Kentucky and Gonzaga) and is showing even that master coaches need time to develop success. But Mead was a different story. It was prime for success. It needed a master coach to get them there but they were ready. Tyson would've won at 9 of the GSL teams in Spokane. But even he wouldn't have won at Rogers (although he would've helped them tons.

mojorising68 wrote:

Simple Formula

1. Be someone who kids and respect and/or like.

2. Be willing to put in a ton of unpaid hours to supervise training in the offseason.

End of Thread.

Isn't it against the rules to work with HS athletes in the offseason? If so or if not what are the best ways, and what are the best ways around the rules or technicalities? Can a volunteer coach work with the athletes in the off season?

Runner85 wrote:

Isn't it against the rules to work with HS athletes in the offseason? If so or if not what are the best ways, and what are the best ways around the rules or technicalities? Can a volunteer coach work with the athletes in the off season?

It varies but most places anymore have a work around. For cross country summer training is essential to success.

I've been involved with a successful program, not nearly at the level of F-M, Arcadia, or Mead, but good for what we have here.

The keys are a decent pool of motivated athletes (getting them going/interested in middle school is a huge boost), consistent summer/year around base training, and a positive supportive environment (coaches, parents, administrators). With those you can build a fairly strong program. A really good coach can help make a strong program great, but good coaches are hard to come by. There is a lot of ego out there, and too many coaches want control/power rather than thinking long term about the kids.

Each state has its own regulations.

Here in NM, we're allowed 7.5 hours a week during the off season. How it's used is up to each coach.

No offense to Jim O'Brien and the Arcadia XC program, but they are hardly a dynasty. To me, a dynasty means success achieved over a long period of time. FM's seven national championships is a dynasty. Saugus' seven California state championships is a dynasty. Arcadia's two straight state trophies? Not so much.

Guppy wrote:

You need a good number of runners. You need to inspire and motivate those runners. You need to know what you are doing and coach them to reach their potential.

Honestly I think coaching high school kids to success is about the easiest thing in life.

I both agree and disagree with your comments. It is simple but not easy. You're right that if you run 50-75 mpw you'll be a solid team, but the intangibles associated with being a great coach are not easy.

I've been an assistant coach for 15+ years, and I think I do a good job at it. I know what needs to be done to have success. While I think I could have a good team as a head coach, I'm just being honest when I say I don't think my personality would support building a dynasty.

There is a lot more charisma, leadership, and other intangibles that you know when you see them, but can't necessarily write them out, associated with building a dynasty. It looks simple and easy, but in most cases it isn't. There is a difference between taking over a highly successful program and maintaining it than there is in building a dynasty/successful program. I often think the difficulty of building is overlooked and underestimated.

CoachProject wrote:

How would YOU go about building a dynasty program out of a school that has never had success? Assume here that you are a new coach. What would be your principles?

Very simple. Do as many unethical college coaches have, and, now, even at the high school level, done and scrounge around Kenya for a couple of ringers. Don't worry about age issues, there is no documentation in Kenya anyway, so that is not an issue. Bring 'em over and let 'em rip! Bingo! You have your kcik-ass team.

I have gotten sick of seeing this at the college level and, even more so, at the high school level.

Just sayin'.

I think the only thing missing so far, unless I missed it, are these points:

Get a booster club that just funnels piles of cash into the program to allow you to do whatever you want with meets, gear, travel.

Maybe most importantly over all else, get an AD and district that supports and funds the program and your staff. You won't get anywhere no matter what fancy ideas you have, if your AD doesn't want to put resources into a national caliber program. Sometimes it's the superintendent, as well. But get full support from the top is the idea.