The "pathetic" attendance in Des Moines was largely due to the heat. Didn't help that every event was held from late morning to late afternoon under the beating sun. Who wants to sit in that heat and humidity?
I wonder what would happen if it were split into a morning session (for prelims/multis) and a prime-time session in the evening, under the lights? Sort of like the Olympics?
The debate is moot. At this time no one else wants to foot the bills. And as several others have pointed out, no one else provides as good of an experience or presentation for student-athletes and fans alike.
I agree with many of the knocks on Eugene, it's a pain to get to etc. But, you know, so is the Super Bowl for most people.
As for Alan Abrahamson, I don't think he truly used the term "ghetto" correctly. It is an embarrassing choice of words, perhaps an inappropriate and insulting one, or a flaccid attempt at sensationalism.
The terms "haven," "mecca," or "hotbed," are more appropriate, as running, jogging, track and field, and Nike all blossomed from Eugene (however the seeds may have originally arrived there.) And while none were wholly born in Eugene, they certainly did not begin there by being segregated off there ala a "ghetto." (The idea for what became Nike clicked in Phil Knight's head while he was in the MBA program at Stanford.)
So, running and track and field have not been segregated to Eugene, again, they blossomed from Eugene, as did Nike, and while Nike certainly has a financial investment in running, it also has running and track and field firmly in it's DNA and every reason in the world to finance and celebrate the sport it came from -- even if it might be losing money at it. (I would not be surprised if Nike technically lost money on track and field in the USA, but not on running itself).
It's easy for an Alan Abrahamson, a Rojo, or any idiot fan, to sit there with no economic responsibilities for those championships, i.e. reality, and jerk themselves into a fantasy sense of idealism.
As others have suggested, those other NCAA schools and cities have had their chances and nothing took root.
...This board has been dead for months, and I see this thread resurrection mostly as Rojo's attempt to stir up more traffic, after all, that's his job.
There is a much more important conversation to have on the current state of track and field in the USA -- and I am rather surprised that the thread on Nick Symmond's defection to Brooks didn't explode into that.
That in itself is a bad sign. The fact that a bunch of elites didn't jump on here anonymously and explode those threads -- tells me those elites have their heads in the sand.
Hopefully the TFAA will prove me wrong.
lover of sunshine wrote:
Yes Eugene is track town USA, definitely the capital, but it should not have every NCAAs through 2021. I mean c'mon.
How about throwing Sacramento and Mt Sac in the mix. Both have excellent facilities, good and enthusiast crowds, great weather.
Not to mention Eugene is a po-dunk town compared to these places and that shows when it comes to flights, hotels, things to do, size of local fanbase, media coverage, etc.
Sacto was dead for the NCAA's I attended there, until the last day. So size of local fan base is a myth on that one.
And the OT's were spotty there too except for the big finals days.
Track is not a popular sport in the USA any more.
Now, if you could get the family of every kid in Sacto that participates in XC or Track to buy tickets and attend, then you might have seen full stands every day.
But this sport sadly doesn't work that way.
It comes down to money and presentation
sebcoe7 wrote:
Ghetto or Capital? Definitely Capital.
Yes, rotation would be nice. But instead of chastising Eugene for stepping up year after year and putting on the BEST meets in the U.S. why don't you challenge the other cities for not. Look at the pathetic attendance for Des Moines. Does Penn want to host the NCAA meet? No. How many attend the NYC Grand Prix?
So what if it harder for someone in the midwest to go to Eugene, not Des Moines? What if NYC was the best place or San Diego? It's still going to be a trip to attend. I don't care if its hard for some to attend, I care that its going to be in the BEST place for the athletes and the sport. If that's Eugene then why give it to some site out of charity, not because they are better.
Maybe the reason track is struggling in the U.S. is we've been giving in to the idea that we need to be "fair" and spread it around to mediocre sites each year, only to bring it back to a great site like Eugene and go "wow, what a great meet. Too bad it can't be like this everywhere".
What if we selected national teams by the same logic that Alan applies. Let's not select the athletes that work the hardest and are the fastest. Rather, lets be "fair" and select athletes unwilling to travel to areas or groups to enhance their performance. Or perhaps lets let those that really don't have enough time to train to be on the Olympic team? It's okay that your aren't as good, we want to be fair and allow slower people to have a chance and maybe someday they'll actually be really good? Genius!
Eugene is the BEST. When some site wants to stand up and match or exceed Eugene then I'll be all in favor to move it there. Stop whining about Eugene and start challenging these other sites to get off their asses and put on a killer meet like Eugene!
This is a very good post -- you point at the real problem, why has track lost popularity in the USA, why is it struggling, how can we help it get up again?
That is the conversation the sport really needs to have.
To paraphrase Kenny Moore quoting Bill Bowerman about Phil Knight...before you can figure out where you want to go, you have to figure out where you really are, and then create a solid plan to get to where you want to go.
I wouldn't be surprised if all of this...World Jr's, World Indoors in Portland, the 2016 OT's and NCAA's through 2021 aren't all part (I hope) of some long term legacy plan of Phil Knight and company to help Oregon, Eugene, the sport of track and field itself.
(Nike still makes many mistakes as Nick Symmonds pointed out, a topic for another time.)
I think because the Chinese economic miracle, Nike was the only active promoter for the last 8 years, and Nike was the only entity begging for the attention of the NCAA. But this has come to pass in 2014 with the end of the recession and the leveling off of growth in China. The looming breakup of NCAA into at least two large groups will torpedo the next 8 NCAA Champs for sure. Talk of a class action lawsuit against the NCAA by Mid-West T&F schools has been in the air. Plus with the breakup, I doubt if UO will stay in the NCAA afterwards.
1) 2) 3) 4) 5) wrote:
Other considerations and alternatives:
1) Ongoing heated talks between the NCAA and ACC, BIG-10, BIG-12, PAC-12, SEC, and Notre Dame to pay student-athletes which may result in those schools breaking away from the NCAA and forming their own sports league and TV broadcasting corporation.
2) Television Revenue Fuels a Construction Boom in the Pac-12
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/30/sports/ncaafootball/television-revenue-fuels-a-construction-boom-in-the-pac-12.html3) Mt. SAC announces $62 million stadium upgrade, applying for Olympic trials
http://www.sgvtribune.com/sports/20131202/mt-sac-announces-62-million-stadium-upgrade-applying-for-olympic-trials4) National Track League elite meets June-July (Canada)
http://www.nationaltrackleague.ca/schedule.php5) American Track League elite meets May-June
http://www.americantrackleague.com/#/calender/
Am I missing something? Wasn't the LRC agreeing just a few weeks ago that NCAA XC should be permanently held in Terra Haute, as the college world series is permanently held in Omaha? Don't many of the same arguments hold in support of having a permanent home for NCAA T&F at the single best place in the country to have a track meet?
Thanks for the OP and to Mr. Carr and others for thoughtful replies. I grew up in Buffalo, lived in Portland for four years and attended many meets in Eugene, and have gone to the Penn Relays at least half a dozen times. I'm not sure where I come down on this. I am quite certain Mr. Carr is correct in arguing the NCAA would draw well at Franklin Field. Many will argue here that Eugen will host this meet very successfully, as they have done in the past. Buffalo hosted the meet in 1998 in a fine facility on the UB campus built for the World University Games in 1993. Despite the fact the locals had little experience hosting such a meet, they did a superb job putting on the NCAA.My recollection is that the meet was poorly attended. I'd like to think that if the meet moved around from year to year, the eventual effect would be to increase the popularity and profile of the sport, but I'm not sure that's the case. As with many other issues in our sport, I think this comes down to weather theoverwelming influence of Nike is helping or hurting.
Now that the holidays are over and the Arctic Vortex has receded, stand by for Federal Court filings to block the NCAA from this decision.
This is personal, but I'm not entirely gruntled by:
1. The Hayward fans who expect a sensation at every meet - and turn away from athletes who fail to deliver (Jordan Hasay).
2. The Oregon coaches who, being hyper-conscious of the need to deliver sensational performances (to meet audience expectations, boost their careers) try to squeeze as many sensational performances out of their athletes as possible. The result is predictable. Lacking the guidance of a non-Oregon coach (Alberto Salazar guiding Galen Rupp's career), the athlete's long-term progress is sacrificed for immediate results.
This is NOT the way of Bill Bowerman, who looked out for his athletes' best interests. Hasay's disappointing college career was evidence of the truth of Arthur Lydiard's statement that the US college system destroys runners. An exaggeration, perhaps, but the need to produce results during three consecutive competitive seasons does nothing for an athlete's long-term development. Especially if the fans are adding to the pressure, and the coaches want to create some kind of misty legend around Hayward Field.
I say it's time for Lananna/Hayward/TrackTown and its fans to climb down off their high horses and start taking care of athletes first. That's the way to build a truly classy organization, and it's the sure path to a kind of success that will last and be universally admired beyond Eugene. This has been proven again and again in track and in other sports - for example, by Bill Walsh who made the SF 49er organization the class of the NFL in the 1980s. Bill insisted on positive energy throughout the Niner organization, and he took care of every player, even those who stood no chance of succeeding in the league.
But NOPe has the best dope.
ugliness wrote:Bill Bowerman took a trip to Australia and learned about this activity called jogging where you slowly run for an extended amount of time as a form of exercise. He brought that activity back to the US and introduced jogging to the Eugene community where it caught on and eventually spread to the entire country.
If there is a birthplace of 'running' it would definitely be Eugene, OR.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jogging#History
Maybe Eugene is the birthplace of "jogging" in the United States. We can only hope that there's no "jogging" at NCAAs in Eugene. "Running" on the track - what one would hope will happen at NCAAs - was going on in the US before Bill Bowerman was born.
Why is everyone obsessing over steak restaurants? The steak joints here are really not that great. The best places in town are pacNW fare.
The downtown as exploded since the 2008 Oly trials were held in Eug. and arguably even since the 2012 trials.
Get away from the university district people.
And really... Eugene is podunk yet you want to hold the meet in the Midwest for easy access? You must enjoy eating at Olive Garden.
Eugene Resident Track Fan wrote:
And really... Eugene is podunk yet you want to hold the meet in the Midwest for easy access? You must enjoy eating at Olive Garden.
Having been to both many times, Des Moines is undoubtedly a more exciting city than Eugene. Obviously, Eugene usually has better meet promotion/turnout.
The further you get away from the university the sketchier Eugene becomes. There's lots of energy around the campus and a few cool places downtown. Wander too far and the city turns into a dump.
not hometown biased wrote:
Eugene Resident Track Fan wrote:And really... Eugene is podunk yet you want to hold the meet in the Midwest for easy access? You must enjoy eating at Olive Garden.
Having been to both many times, Des Moines is undoubtedly a more exciting city than Eugene. Obviously, Eugene usually has better meet promotion/turnout.
Few of families can afford cross country vacations more than once or twice a year. Not to worry. Held yearly around America are three major marathons (Bos, Chi, Ny), six gargantuan relays (Penn, Mt Sac, Kansas, Drake, Stanford, Texas) that last anywhere from 5 days to two weekends, not to mention Bolder Boulder 5K, Peach Tree 10K, Houston Marathon, Carlsbad 5K, etc. We can still make those events. Have fun.
And we have the answer--track fans want to go to track meets where there is a lot of "excitement in the city".
Have you observed track fans at all? 99% of them are interested in track and field and could care less about going out to party at "exciting" places after the event.
Math Genius wrote:
And we have the answer--track fans want to go to track meets where there is a lot of "excitement in the city".
Have you observed track fans at all? 99% of them are interested in track and field and could care less about going out to party at "exciting" places after the event.
You meth addict. Tell that to the fans at the Summer Olympic Games.
Demographic: 68 year old retired school teacher. In 43rd year of coaching high school CC and TF in Florida.
Trials attended: 76-Eugene, 88-Indianapolis, 92-New Orleans, 08-Eugene, 12-Eugene.
Obviously my interests are far different now than they were in 76. However, I enjoy Eugene as much now as I did 38 years ago. I can see the "Eugene Fatigue" scenario for many,but having been in Eugene only for the three aforementioned trials, one national championship, and two Pre Classics, it remains one of my favorite spots. My wife and I save for four years, fly into Portland, rent a car, and take a leisurely drive down arguably the most beautiful coastal area in the U.S. A day or two stop in Yachats, maybe a side trip to Bend, and then into Eugene for an incredible 9-10 day spectacle. Heat (oppressive in Indianapolis and New Orleans-reportedly in Sacramento also)
is rarely a factor in Eugene. Rain, not a big deal, under the roof for most.
EVERYBODY in town is talking about the same event during that time. Where else can Bernard Lagat get an ovation when he and his family walk into the Steelhead Brewery for post meet dinner?
Does it have a Super Bowl "party" atmosphere? No, but I think most track and field fans would not want that kind of atmosphere. Eugene can be a comfortable track vacation, with some incredible micro-brews, and and a packed knowledgeable house for the best track and field meet in America (the world?).
Memorable moments? Too many to name, with one exception: the 08 Men's 800 final and the Oregon sweep. I have never experienced a level of noise where my ears actually hurt.
Can't wait to 16!