By the end(at Duke), if I saw one more poster for an on-campus frat party with a “pimps and hoes”, I would lose my mind.

Flamingoandkoval wrote:

Did they go grudgingly (like, "well of course I hate the idea of these sexist parties, but that's where the hot guys are."

I went to Duke as well, and that is how it usually goes.

Little girls are away from Mommy and Daddy and want to have sex with the arrogant dudes in boat shoes & horsey shirts. This sort of thing happens at plenty of colleges with an established Greek culture, but having went there the Greek life at Duke is exceptionally misogynistic and generally disrespectful. Occasionally a story breaks about parties themed in poor taste (gangsters/homeless people/etc.)...the truth is these happen all the time and I fully understand what the runner in the OP was talking about. I'm not one of those hyper-PC liberal types, but I just couldn't respect most of the fraternities, I know more than a couple girls who got roofied. I distinctly recall one frat party as having a "Mexican" theme, you can probably fill in the blanks as to this one. Overall Duke was a great school but in comparison to other universities us Blue Devils are really up there in terms of general douchebaggery and obnoxious fraternity guys.

Frat Life wrote:

...She is your typical women's studies, man hating feminist.

HAHAHAHAHAHA Well done sir! You may pick up your fedora at the next window! And might I say, I'm excited for your next piece "Why Isn't There a White History Month?"

Frat Life wrote:

Kate always loved attention. Always desperate to have people looking at her. Whether it was shaving her head, dying her hair some outrageous color, or displaying complete intolerance for any opinion other than her liberal worldview, this latest quote isn't surprising. She is your typical women's studies, man hating feminist.

Being from Duke, you're probably not aware of how this post looks to someone from the outside, so let me help. Your post makes you come off as exactly the kind of ignorant, entitled brat that people associate with Duke. Do you think you're even making a point here? She criticizes Duke's misogynistic atmosphere, and you come back with "she loves attention". Whether she does or doesn't love attention has no bearing on the issues she brought up.

I was a scholarship athlete at Duke years ago.

I never was into the Greek scene, and while I did not partake in or approve of the Greek excesses, I did not take them as seriously as Ms. Van Buskirk, well, because, I am not sure 18-22 year olds in a privileged, comfortable environment behave that all that well anywhere. I myself was exceedingly respectful of women - carefully so - I was afraid to do anything that would imperil my status at the school.

One thing that Ms. Van Buskirk misses, and I think it is a significant oversight - is Duke's culture (and other schools like it) of money.

Duke had plenty of Ms. Van Buskirks, trained to see the evil in "isms" - sexism, capitalism, and so on. But it was not a friendly place for someone who was poor. I was poor, and from an unemployed single mother home. And the level of condescension, combined with the general lack of life experiences, was bothersome. I used to chuckle in my honors program when my classmates went on and on about the glories of trade unions and the like. They certainly never worked in one - I did. I was a Teamster and a slaughterhouse worker and could relate what those experiences were like, including the often abused notion that these institutions consistently worked on behalf of working class people. Oh, well, what did they know?

I am not being entirely fair in my criticisms. Ms. Van Buskirk likely comes from middle class upbringing (or higher), like most of all Duke. These folks have the luxury of prevaricating about isms - I didn't - I didn't have a place to live in the summer and was worried about survival.

Some food for thought.

Funny I can't get athletics illustrated site to come up or this piece on Kate V..; did this bit of attention bring down their server maybe..?

Letsrun.com wrote:

We had to actually cut the quote down to make it fit above. Full quote from collegiate 1k record holder and former Duke runner and Moscow World CHamp 1500 runner Kate Van Buskirk is below:

"By the end of my time at Duke, I thought that if I saw one more poster for an on-campus frat party with a “pimps and hoes” or “bosses and slutty secretaries” theme, I would lose my mind."

http://athleticsillustrated.com/interviews/kate-van-buskirk-interview/

I dont agree with Miss KVB.

If you want equality then you should encourage women to express their sexuality however they want and not indirectly bash a woman who wants to go to a slutty secretary party. If a female sorority had a "man-whore and female pimps party" men would love it and no one would complain.

Is there any doubt that Ms KVB has a lack of respect for the actions (and the women themselves) of the women that attend these parties?

This isnt about equality. It's about some individuals desire to protect the concept of sacred female virginity.

Frat Life wrote:

I don't know. Every time I'm on Duke's campus, the only people who really seem to be in your face is the LGBT group. Duke seems to cater to every minority group, LGBT, not to mention the majority of the courses have the "race, sex gender" theme.

Kate always loved attention. Always desperate to have people looking at her. Whether it was shaving her head, dying her hair some outrageous color, or displaying complete intolerance for any opinion other than her liberal worldview, this latest quote isn't surprising. She is your typical women's studies, man hating feminist.

I don't know Kate, but I do agree with the assertion that most college campuses have lots of public postings that are pro-minority.

Try walking a mile in a white male's shoes on a college campus. Especially if you don't subscribe to the liberal orthodoxy. You are reminded every day in every way that you are not welcome.

So, I find it a sweet irony that she's concerned with these frat party postings. Apparently, all of the other pro-feminist, pro-LGBT postings (which outnumber the frat parties by at least 10X) are just dandy.

same experience wrote:

I am not being entirely fair in my criticisms. Ms. Van Buskirk likely comes from middle class upbringing (or higher), like most of all Duke. These folks have the luxury of prevaricating about isms...

Some food for thought.

Some additional food for thought:

(1) Yes, you're being unfair in your criticisms of Van Buskirk. You don't know anything about her, so you're doing a lot of assuming. How do you know she "likely" comes from a middle-class upbringing, given that too was a full scholarship athlete?

(2) Is your general point that Duke has a lot of classism, therefore Van Buskirk's suggestion that there's misogyny must be wrong? It seems to me the two observations are complementary. As someone from a poor background, you experienced Duke's money bias/insensitivity; as a woman, she experienced Duke's misogyny. Why does one experience invalidate the other?

(3) "Prevaricate" means "to speak or act in an evasive way." While I expect you'll claim that's exactly what you meant, it clearly wasn't.

I would be curious to know why Kate does have that "wanting to be noticed" vibe.

Is that a response to the way society expects women to act taken to an extreme or is that just how she is?

It doesn't really seem much different from what she is complaining about.

With a similar situation (except my very large family was old school Catholic), I might add that most liberals flail against a society their relativist secular philosophy has created.

Most of the social culture of young people is dehumanizing. From the grinding and twerking in dancing to the black-out drunk and drugging parties, to the obscene speech, to the porn saturated expectations, this is not a respectful culture.

And it was created by liberals and leftists.

It's a shame that this thread has devolved so quickly, because Ms. Van Buskirk seems to be an extraordinarily thoughtful and eloquent young athlete. She certainly made good use of her time at Duke, and it's great to see people like her representing track and field.

The fact that you raise Duke as the epitome of this shows just how ignorant and naive you are to life outside the bubble you are encapsulated in. If you have ever been around Duke, especially recently, you'd know that the political correctness is incredibly pervasive compared to the rest of the country. Last year an Asian themed party resulted in protests on campus and the fraternity being suspended and losing its charter. This may be just given the culturally insensitive implications, but protests over an Asian themed party would never happen at a state school. If you'd like to see real mistreatment of women and real misogyny go look at any state school party culture (which isn't even in the same galaxy as Duke) instead of disparaging one of the more progressive and politically correct campuses in the country.

Welcome to the Real World wrote:

protests over an Asian themed party would never happen at a state school.

doubt it

jeffrey d. boomhauer wrote: typical liberal mentality. All communication - even frat party flyers - must be censored so as to be judged 'tolerant' by the PC police

It seems incredible that this should have to be explained, but finding something objectionable isn't the same as wanting it to be banned. I assume that what Van Buskirk (and others) wants isn't for people who hate women to be forced to hide their views; it's for people not to hate women in the first place.

It is absolutely ridiculous that Duke continually gets blasted for this sort of behavior. I was there from 08-12 and was part of the greek life scene. They could probably do a little better but Duke is more inclusive and respectful than most other schools by an order of magnitude. And yet for some reason every single small scandal at Duke becomes national news. If every offensive party theme at Auburn, Clemson, or any other big public school in the south got on Jezebel and Deadspin then they wouldn't have time to report on anything else.

Also Kate, I'm interested to hear how you feel about a long interview about your career successes was boiled down to one quote about college life. How is the stuff about Duke more relevant (especially on a running news site!) than everything else in the article. Seems to me that it was a clear attempt to grab eyeballs and latch on to what inevitably will be a full news cycle bashing the "culture" at Duke.

A_New Fan wrote:

It's a shame that this thread has devolved so quickly

Why is it, that on letsrun a discussion get going and as soon as there is a post that questions a belief or group perception that causes goes against the grain, the thread is immediately tabbed as "devolved" or the most convenient "ism'?

Funny thing about discussions with people that have different belief systems or experiences: Sometimes you hear things that fall outside your own beliefs and my cause discomfort..

You don't have to agree with it, but perhaps you should treat opposing opinions with the same respect you want your own respected.

Hold the phone - prevaricate is exactly what I meant. My experience with the indoctrinators at Duke and other similar bastions (I attended even a higher ranked one in graduate school) is that they are rarely direct, and most often, they engage in roundabout discussions about the evils of racism, sexism, capitalism and the like as opposed to directly examining data and the extant practical challenge before them. The latter exercise is typically difficult; indoctrination is not, especially once the turgid prose is mastered. I am likely better educated than you are - so your pre-emptive claim that I did not mean what I said will ring hollow. And your assumption is smugly obnoxious - likely from someone less tough and accomplished than I am.

By the way, I never did mention that one experience - college misogyny - invalidated the other - you did. I am glad you conclude that - I do not.

But I might add that college misogyny is well, not as much as a burden as poverty. And I don't think you get it. I avoided the indoctrinators at Duke because they offered me little of value to me. Sure, a middle or upper middle class person can bag that Duke credential and use it well, especially given their social connections. But I needed real skills, real critical thinking capacity, and ability to relatively quickly add real substantial value to an entity to make a living to survive - that is - eat and have a roof over my head. In this vein, complaining about Greek antics is a low order problem.

This is a far bigger problem in sport (and, as Van Buskirk points out, in life generally) than doping.

Tucker Max, Richard Nixon, and the Lacrosse Case. That's all you need to know about the University of New Jersey at Durham.