Adidas Adizero Pro replacement?!? (with replies from adidas)

adidas product team, thanks for your information. A question about the adizero adios boosts, and some of the other adidas flats such as the mana and ace: They seem a little "heavy" in terms of weight. Does this make a difference in terms of performance? Intuitively I would have thought that it would be a fair amount of extra work for the legs to be lifting up even an extra 50 to 100g each stride over the duration of a long distance race.

Have adidas have analysed this? I am guessing that the philosphy of adidas is to have a slightly heavier racing flat but this "disadvantage" is offset by having a midsole with better energy return properties. Correct?

Dude, lose some weight. The best runners in the world are wearing the adios and the adios boost. It's that way for a reason. If you lose a pound or two from your own body weight you will be much better suited than if adidas takes 2 oz out of their shoes. That's the truth and nothing butt.

ex adizero pro user -

weight does matter but keep in mind that 100grams is 3.5 ounces. shaving an extra 100g off of any shoe is significant. but, yes, weight certainly does matter. some athletes prefer the lightest possible shoe; other are willing to take a slightly heavier shoe and feel protected. everyone has their personal preferences. for the marathon it is my experience that most of the africans are looking for something in that 190 to 220 gram zone (a bit under 7 ounces to a bit more than 7 ounces). i think you'll have to find your preference through trial and error in longer training sessions*.

*i am not a coach. i simply work on the footwear creation team here in germany!

Hi adidas geo,

please bring back something similar to the PRO, especially the LOW heel height.

What a great shoe!

thanks

I am sorry but you are missing the point. Extra weight at the end of the legs in the feet has a significant effect on performance because of the levering effect. As a crude example, a 110 lb athlete with 3kg weights around each of his ankles will have a very difficult time keeping up with a 150lb athlete wearing just a pair of racing flats on his feet even though he still weighs considerably lighter.

My guess is that when it gets down to the 50 - 100g diffeences in weight, adidas has researched this and their conclusion is that it does not make a marked difference and that the cushioning/energy-return property of their shoes offsets any disadvantage from a slightly heavier shoe. In contrast, nike seem to be developing lighter racing flats but for now it looks as though the best marathoners are wearing adidas.

ex adizero pro user wrote:

but for now it looks as though the best marathoners are wearing adidas.

Do these guys really shop around to different companies looking for the best shoes/company fit for them? Or is it more like an agent sees them running in Kenya and has them sign a piece of paper?

Adidas can be frustrating, I have just worn 6 pairs of the adizero tempo 5, it's a great shoe, the best I've wornn in some time, firm, light, supportive and not too clunky, I can get 700 miles out of a pair which these days is amazing. I've just bought a pair of tempo 6, the upper has been simplified and I believe is a bit lighter, but it doesn't work as well, the fit is sloppy and for an Adidas pretty wide, the heel fit is loose and it just completely changes the way the shoe feels.

It's really frustrating but I admire Adidas for continuing to produce responsive relatively firm shoes. The last few years have seen a splurge of marshmallow-esque shoes, how anybody runs in the pegasus 30 or the streak 4 is beyond me, I for one do not want a pillow underfoot

ex adizero pro user - i didn't miss your point. i agree that weight matters. what i'm telling you is that the average marathoner seems to prefer somewhere between 190 and 220 grams, including all the africans that many of you admire. we do now that weight matters in performance. we are aware of studies that show that reducing 100 grams from the weight of a shoe can improve performance of up to 1%. as you can probably figure out this can be quite significant during a 42 km race at 2:03.xx

simply read - i seriously recommend that you give the adizero takumi sen or ren a try. you may have trouble locating the latter in the u.s. though. both have weights under 200 grams and heel/forefoot heights to your desired specifications.

hope this helps.

Thanks, George, for all your responses in this thread. The Chicago results were impressive.

Thank you Adidas geo.

I found the hagio today, very similar, but apparently vanishing as well?

I can not find the takumi sen locally or at running warehouse online--anybody know where to get a pair?

Simply Read---- google is absolutely amazing

http://www.eastbay.com/product/model:189109/sku:368750/adidas-adizero-takumi-sen-mens/white/pink/

Seeing as the Hagio is $58 on RRS website it would likely mean it's going away to be replaced.

thank you Andre,

after using the google machine, a question:

does the Takumi Sen come in size 13, or stop at 12???

I have been excluded from several nice flats due to the evil practice of companies only making sizes up to 12.

Also, $150 !! Holy moly, that's expensive.

Wondering what justifies the near double in price from Hagio to Takumi sen?

Adidas Product Team ~ Do you know what Geoffrey Mutai is going to race in at the NYC Marathon. Adios 2? Adios Boost? other?

Thanks for your feedback. My reply was to "I'm with stupid", I saw that you understood the issue of shoe weight.

I very briefly read something about Jack Daniels' reseach on shoe weights and if I understood the conclusions correctly, there was an advantage to reducing weight but there was a point where it was advantageous to keep some cushioning and reducing weight further became disadvantageous due to muscle fatigue from lack of cushioning.

It looks as though you are going by just the feeling of the athlete which might be just as useful as performing a complicated scientific study.

Is it correct that the takumi sen and ren were designed for Japanese marathoners? Did you find that the Japanese have a tendency to prefer a lighter shoe than the Africans and other marathoners?

ex adizero pro user -

yes, sen and ren were developed specifically for the needs and desires of japanese runners. what has been positive is that other "western" markets are finding it fits their needs as well. hefty price is due to more complex construction, types of meshes we use, additional of DSP on outsole (very grippy material mostly in forefoot) and finally the technical skill in the factory to put it all together. it's not just weight though. fit, function, features (such as DSP) are a requirement. these two models have been quite successful in japan. definitely fun and gratifying to work on projects like these.

prerunner -

mutai is planning on adizero adios boost in nyc

simply read -

we do offer size 13 US in sen, but sometimes a store or in the case of running warehouse will choose not to carry it. as for hagio, this model will be discontinued at end of 2014 (we have another model in the works. remember, if the US doesn't carry it anymore, it doesn't mean that it's not being offered globally. the markets in the world will not bring in every single model that we offer globally.

cheers

Just want to say that your energy boost shoe is simple amazing.

Extremely nude fit in the shoebox where I have found tha later model of for example Boston to be a bit snug.

One question though George, when will the Adidas knit-shoes hit the market? I have a pair of the very lightweight Adidas knit (whatever it's called) and the upper mesh is superior to every other shoe. It's the same thing with Nikes fly knit, upper mesh is superior. Is this the future you think? And when will Adidas release a line?

Thanks to adidas for the information here. A question though, I purchased 2 pairs of the adios boost at the London marathon expo this year and ran London in them. I really like the shoe and plan on using them again in Frankfurt in two weeks time. I have since purchased another pair so will there be subtle differences in the new pair as you say you made some adjustments since April? I notice a difference on the sole in the heel area?

BTW, Kipsang wore the original Adios in green when he ran 2:03:42 in Frankfurt, not the Adios 2's. You can watch the last few kilometres on YouTube for proof!

I just can't see how Adidas can justify such a massive price increase for the Takumi Sen and Ren, the old Pro had that anyway, as did the Adios 1 and parts of the Adios 2 outsole. There doesn't appear to be any radical improvement or jump forward in tech, the pro was available for around £65-70 in the UK, the Takumi is £130!!!!!! That is just ridiculous, that isn't a valid replacement. It looks like a cynical price hike to position a shoe as an alternative to the flyknit racer.

The Hagio isn't great, which means in the UK you have to shell out over £100 for a racing flat, that Adios Boost or the Takumi. Totally ridiculous, even the lieks of Newbalance with domestic manufacture can sell a top line racer for around £70.