nick symmonds: "i'm a piece of $*!t"

Koppenberg wrote:

Stickler: Rudisha is a member of the Kalenjin people, not the Masai. But yeah, Symmonds is a baller. I get a little tired of runners and other athletes trying to play the underdog card, but Symmonds plays that game better than most.

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Nope. The Kalenjin tribe is the one that produces nearly all of Kenya's champions.

But Rudisha is indeed Masai (can also be spelled Massai).

wss wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

short legs = short stride length

Not true.

Yes, it may not be true. It also depends on the power of your legs, because if your center of gravity moves disproportionately upwards, your stride length is understandably longer.

However, long legs are generaly very important in the middle distances. As early as at the Olympics in Rome 1964, J. M. Tanner documented that relative leg length increases from the 100 m up to the 800 m/1500 m and subsequently again decreases.

These trends are quite logical: Short legs are advantageous in short sprints, because they enable fast acceleration. As the importance of acceleration decreases, the relative leg length increases. However, since a certain point, long legs start to become disadvantageous, because they consume a disproportionate amount of oxygen and worsen running economy. This explains, why middle distance runners have relatively the longest legs among all runners, but long distance runners tend to have relatively shorter legs.

To sum it up for a layman, here is an overview of height, weight, BMI and proportions of elite runners. The averages of height, weight and BMI are based on international medal winners from the period 2000-2013. (I am sorry that I don't use US medieval units; it's 2013 and everybody should use international SI system).

100 m: 181,2/78,6 (BMI 23,93) - relatively short legs

200 m: 182,1/77,7 (BMI 23,42) - relatively short legs

400 m: 185,9/77,9 (BMI 22,51) - relatively normal legs

800 m: 179,6/65,1 (BMI 20,18) - relatively very long legs

1500 m: 176,9/62,8 (BMI 20,08) - relatively long legs

5000 m: 174,2/59,0 (BMI 19,45) - relatively rather short legs

10 000 m: 168,8/55,3 (BMI 19,39) - - relatively rather short legs

While BMI (relative slenderness) gradually decreases with the increasing distance length, height reaches a peak in the 400 m (the longest ANAEROBIC distance) and only then decreases, with the growing importance of aerobic energy (VO2 max.).

Rudisha is Masai!!!

Koppenberg wrote:

Stickler: Rudisha is a member of the Kalenjin people, not the Masai. But yeah, Symmonds is a baller. I get a little tired of runners and other athletes trying to play the underdog card, but Symmonds plays that game better than most.

All of that is made up. Leg length is entirely irrelevant. It's all about power.

Bad Wigins wrote:

owowo wrote:

What do short legs have to do with anything?

short legs = short stride length

most 1:41's and all 1:40's were by tall people with the proud strides of elven warriors. Hairy dwarves and furry little hobbits with good foot speed can pitter-patter their way to 1:43 sometimes.

Let's see.

There is one 1:40 -- Rudisha who is in fact tall.

The first 1:41 was of course Seb Coe -- all 5' 9" of him

Now, what about Symmonds? First of all, I would like to say that his physique (178 cm/75 kg, BMI 23,67) is very eccentric. It doesn't fit middle distance runners at all.

The body types of 800 m/1500 m runners move between two poles:

- A tall, heavier type that relies on anaerobic energy production (ca. 185 cm/75 kg) - e.g. Bile, Heško, Cruz, Rodal, Bucher, Ndururi, Gray, Tellez.

- A smaller, lighter, aerobic type (something like 175 cm/58 kg) - e. g. Coe, Yego, Kimutai, Nduwimana, El Guerrouj, Rotich, Ramzi, Komen.

As you can see, the anaerobic type prevails in Europeans and West Africans, while the aerobic type is typical for North and East Africans. This also agrees with the distribution of body types that we can observe in Olympic representatives - physiques of Europeans fit the anaerobic (and average) middle distance runners, while the range of East and North Africans mostly reaches to the aerobic types.

The physique of Symmonds stands closest to that of 200 m sprinters. 800 m runners with his height are usually 13 kg (!) lighter. And if they have his weight, they are 7 cm taller. Therefore, Symmonds seems to be too heavy to benefit from high VO2 max., and too small to benefit from anaerobic energy and long stride.

Nevertheless, we know one, almost identically eccentric example from history: Peter Snell. A former short-distance sprinter, he had an unusually high VO2 max. 73,3 ml/kg.min. at 179 cm/77 kg (BMI 24,03). It was a very interesting, strange mixture of physiological characteristics. Hence I think that Symmonds must have an unusually high VO2 max. (for his weight) as well.

fjallraven wrote:

i'm a huge nick symmonds fan...very entertaining, to say the least. "i look at my legs and think, there's no way these short legs are going to ever set another pb....I look at rudisha, he's 6 foot 3 and a masai warrior. i'm a pice of $*!t."

The long legs in tall Maasai warriors are not

First of all, the Maasai are not especially tall. The legends about their tallness come from the 19th century, when an average Englishman was as tall as today's average European women. The highest number concerning the Maasai that I found in literature is 172 cm (quoted by Crognier in 1973). It is quite old, but another source (Sellen 1995) lists an even lower value - 171,2 cm. Yes, some Nilotes are very tall, but it apparently doesn't apply for Kenyan Nilotes.

Second, Nilotes generally have the longest legs (in comparison with stature) among all humans. (It can be matched only by some Australian tribes.) Their sitting height/height ratio is typically 48%. In Cushites/Ethiopids (Ethiopians, Somalis, Tutsis) it is around 50%. In West Africans, it ranges between mid-48% (in the savannah zone of the Western Sudan) and mid-51% (in the Congo basin). Black Americans typically have sitting height/height ratio close to 51%. North Africans - and Arabs in general - are usually in the mid-50-52% area. In Europeans, it is roughly between 51,3-52,8% (the lowest in Northwestern Europe and Western Balkans, and the highest generally in Northern, East-Central and Northeastern Europe).

In praxis, it means that a Nilote, who is 180 cm tall, has approximately 7.5 cm longer legs than an average European. And an average European would have to be 15 cm taller only to match the Nilotic leg length. Thus, at first glance, it could seem that tall Nilotes, who can match Europeans in height, have indisputably better predispositions for middle distances than Europeans.

This isn't so easy, however: It is little known that BMI in Nilotes (and all East Africans in general) quickly decreases with increasing height. This is an inevitable climatic adaptation, because low body weight at tall stature increases body surface area and prevents from overheating. As a result, the tallest East African groups reach BMI values that would be considered as signs of severe undernutrition by European standards (17-18 kg/m2).

Now, what did we say about middle distance runners? That their BMI INCREASES with increasing height? The exact opposite! In other words, a tall Maasai warrior may sometimes have tall stature and insanely long legs, but it is quite unlikely that he would be able to produce enough anaerobic power to move them enough quickly over the 800 m/1500 m. Furthermore, I found a study of African runners at the Äll-Africa Games 1995 that also measured the sitting height/height ratio. In 17 runners, out of which 14 were black, the ratio was only 50.4% - a surprisingly high value. Therefore, it would need further research, if extremely long legs of the Nilotic type are actually beneficial here. All other thoughts would be rather speculative, so I think that it would be optimal to end this little anthropometric excursion now.

like all excuses for bolt ,

doesnt mean good old rudisha isnt dirty as .

wake up fanboys .

show me a clean sub 1.42 guy .

and height only started to be so important

until igf-1 lr3 arrived on scene and

enabled enhancement in cadense for our taller friends .

Height doesn't mean everything. Long legs means you need more strength to more those large moment arms in a circle.

Aman, Coe, and Kipketer weren't overly tall runners.

Kipketer is 6 feet tall. Coe and Nijel Amos are why I said "most" sub-1:42's are by 6 footers. And Aman has not run sub-1:42.

Symmonds knows better than anyone how his height is a disadvantage. Somehow he has managed 1:42 anyhow. Probably with leg speed velocity.

Please tell me why everyone should be a fan of Nick Symmonds? I live in Eugene and have for many years.

Someone mentioned first that they like him because he "can get girls" and also that he is cool/seems cool.

These are the reasons I think most guys that run a lot like myself, especially young guys like him. I don't see him as "cool" or envy him for being able to

get girls." I see him as a dumba$s and am tired of him.

What has he "done on and off the track" that is so special?

What is he doing for the sport? The fact that he sees himself as an entertainer not a runner is the epitome of being a jacka$s to me.

For anyone that has had any remote amount of success in life and is older than 22 I don't know who likes him.

He seems like someone that is constantly looking for attention and that is it. I am sure his friends he in Eugene that he "dedicated his race in Moscow to" really appreciated it. If he wants to make statement and do something positive for them why doesn't he do something in Eugene for them to help them out in a positive way? Who has a date with Paris Hilton and then immediately wants to tell every detail of it to a newspaper?

He appears like someone who wants to prove if is important or simply gain attention. He is the type of person I crush in the business world all of the time. I laugh at week minded people like Nick Symmonds. You want to look up to someone look up to someone that doesn't have to tell you how good he is and is doing something that has a benefit on people outside of simple entertainment. Look up to a good Doctor or a teacher etc. Look at him as entertainment. Don't look up to him as a "cool guy".

Bad Wigins wrote:

Kipketer is 6 feet tall. Coe and Nijel Amos are why I said "most" sub-1:42's are by 6 footers. And Aman has not run sub-1:42.

Symmonds knows better than anyone how his height is a disadvantage. Somehow he has managed 1:42 anyhow. Probably with leg speed velocity.

Kipketer's height is listed once as 182 cm, but also as 172 cm. After comparing various photos, I think that the latter value is real. By the way, his height/BMI relationship would then be completely eccentric and very distant from the usual range of elite 800 m runners. But this wouldn't be so surprising in a hardcore EPO user.

swag dome chicks n sht wrote:

Was gonna say "Dudes a baller" but that doesn't do him justice. Seriously the coolest personality in track today, possibly one of the best all time. The Prefontaine of our current time. Prefontaine embodied 70's running the way Symmonds embodies the best of 2010's running.

I like the guy a lot, but wish he would cut down or eliminate the drinking and philandering.

I will bite. I wish him success, but I am over his self promotion and acting like he isn't super talented. I hope he breaks the American record next year, but that doesn't mean I have to be a fan.

Week.

No one who would take the 5 mins or so required to offer the above to a message board such as this "crushes" anyone in anything notable. Imagine you, dissing Nick Symmonds!

Bad Wigins wrote:

Symmonds knows better than anyone how his height is a disadvantage. Somehow he has managed 1:42 anyhow. Probably with leg speed velocity.

There's a lot of truth in those words.

801 dude wrote:

I can;t believe anyone would not be a fan of that guy.

Except for the blatant Political Correctness regarding gay issues. I don\'t care for that at all!

I enjoyed this reply. It's hard to take someone seriously when they spell "weak" as "week" since that seems like a junior high school mix-up.

[quote]SportsPhysiologist wrote:

Kipketer's height is listed once as 182 cm, but also as 172 cm. After comparing various photos, I think that the latter value is real. /quote]

borzakovskiy is a well-known 6-footer with no ambiguous data floating around.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AE%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%91%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9

Pause the 04 oly final on at 2:59

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWsAACwEki4

keep trying until the track lines are completely horizontal. Kipketer and Borza are in single file on the lane 1-2 line, each with one foot on the ground, and their heads are exactly the same level. If anything Kipketer's is a smidgen higher.

If that doesn't convince you, compare him to 1.78m Bungei from the same race instead.

http://wikirun.com/Wilfred_Bungei

Now that I've proven Kipketer is from team tall, let us end this off-topicness.