Damn. Just when the single-to-noise ratio here started to get tolerable . . .
Bill Nye The Science Guy wrote: Blah.
Thanks much for the fascinating perspective Benji. Hope you'll come back soon.
Damn. Just when the single-to-noise ratio here started to get tolerable . . .
Bill Nye The Science Guy wrote: Blah.
Thanks much for the fascinating perspective Benji. Hope you'll come back soon.
Benji,
I would love to publish (on my site) some of your running remembrances/record of daily runs.
If you could send me copies I could transcribe to electronic format and have you edit/explain before adding them to the site.
I average 25 miles/week now and race about three times a year.
Hi Hodgie was athe trials with Harry,Kirkle coach and Jocko had a ball and saw Freddy D
Hodgie san get the logs of KEvin Moats for your website.
Benji Durden wrote:
Heat training can also be considered strength training since you are hauling all those heavey wet sweats around as you run. (;-)
Additionally you can look at haet training as a way to get altitude effects at sea level. The oxygen uptake system is effected by the partial pressure (i.e altitude) and temperature. The lower the partial pressure or the higher the temperature, the less oxygen the cardivascular system carries. By adapting to the stress of higher body temperature, the body becomes more effective at oxygen uptake in a manner similar to the adaptation to altitude.
I'm sure there are other things that improve as well. I know that when I fisrt tried heat training it was simply for a race in Puerto Rico. I trained in long sleeves and sweat pants for 2 months and won the race. I raced better during the prep period as well. After the race I went back to shirtless running like my training buddies and soon my racing slowed down. I can see patterns and went back to long sleeves and sweat pants
When those got to be comfortable, I added layers. Over several months I adapted to gradual increases in layers to where I normally ran in at least 1 set of sweats and 1 rainsuit.
I would have 1 long day per week of 2:30-3:00 in the am and frequently the repeats day and the threshold/training race day would be 2:00+ as well. I generall ran 2:30-2:45 most of the year with maybe 6-8 2:45-3:00 runs. I also ran 4-6 marathons/year since that was what we did back then. We weren't afraid running marathons would make us slower.
Thanks Benji, this is some of the best advice I have ever read. I am sure that heat acclimatisation is of enourmous benefit to distance runners. The extra water retention that we gain gives us more power and endurance.
Also, as you say, it is harder to breathe wearing the extra clothing, so we get more of a training effect, although it does take a few weeks to get used to it.
Anybody out there still using Benji's Marathon Plan? I have been following it religiously. Now with the race a couple of weeks away, I was wondering about the taper. 90 minutes the Wednesday before seems a little high, even at a slow pace. Thoughts?
luv2run,In general, pressure increases with increasing temperature:pressure = density * (gas constant) * temperatureI think Mr. Durden's point was that when under heat stress, the body can't process oxygen as efficiently. The point wasn't that high temperature equals less oxygen in the atmosphere.-t.o.g.d.
luv2run wrote:
Benji Durden wrote:Additionally you can look at haet training as a way to get altitude effects at sea level. The oxygen uptake system is effected by the partial pressure (i.e altitude) and temperature. The lower the partial pressure or the higher the temperature, the less oxygen the cardivascular system carries. By adapting to the stress of higher body temperature, the body becomes more effective at oxygen uptake in a manner similar to the adaptation to altitude.
.
It would have to get awfully hot at sea level to get PO2 down to that at 6000 feet. PO2 at SL is about 148 mm Hg; at 6000 feet it is about 122 mm Hg. I am sure someone can find a site that will adjust PO2 based on temperature. How hot does it need to be at sea level to drop the PO2 17%? I doubt Atlanta on the hottest day in history gets the barometric pressure down to 610 mm Hg or reduces the PO2 by 17%.
I'm sure Jeff Galloway (in his prime) did not train like he now preaches.
CO-Runner wrote:
I think dobiblon is reading the training program that he has others do, which is different than what he did himself.
He should use the same guidelines that worked for him or else stop advising others.
Benji: What sort of program would you advocate for an-over-age-50 type for 5-10K training?
(this would be post-leg-surgery, post-sciatica)
Thanks.
trackaddict wrote:
I'm sure Jeff Galloway (in his prime) did not train like he now preaches.
When Galloway made the Olypmic team in 1972, he trained with Frank Shorter and Jack Bachelor, two of the top Americans of the past few years. He ran upwards of 120-200 mpw at times; then went to Boulder where they trained at altitude.
I knew he ran a lot of miles...nothing like his programs of today.
Benji Durden wrote:
I trained in long sleeves and sweat pants for 2 months and won the race. I raced better during the prep period as well. After the race I went back to shirtless running like my training buddies and soon my racing slowed down. I can see patterns and went back to long sleeves and sweat pants
When those got to be comfortable, I added layers. Over several months I adapted to gradual increases in layers to where I normally ran in at least 1 set of sweats and 1 rainsuit.
What kind of materials in the sweats and rainsuits?
Were these heavy sweats or light ones.
Thanks much.
I ran a lot in the 1970's in Los Angeles with a nylon windbreaker. I did this all year except reps and races and it was quite warm a lot of the time but I got very used to the heat. My PR marathon was very hilly and 95 degrees at the finish. I couldn't do that now so am sure it helped a lot to train in the windbreaker. I never wore anything else on my legs for running except running shorts, but am sure the windbreaker helped me a lot in getting used to the heat.
Anybody notice that Benji ran yesterday's CIM? Clocked in at 3:00:58. Damn, if only I knew he was running. Big time fan and would have loved to chat after the race. Ran my best marathon ever years ago using his schedule...
met him last year at Rocket City. very nice guy and willing to share his knowledge.
there was a thread last year in which he participated at length talking about his old training and racing and followed up right after RC.
Benji Durden wrote:
What I have written for runners to do is basically what I did. The problem you are having is the fact I use time not distance as my basis for given workouts. I ran 85-95 for most of my good years with three days per week of doubles. The mornings were 1:45-3:00 with one day of repeats (mostly 800's at 10K pace), one day that was threshold (though most often this was a 10K or 15K that I trained through) and one day of just running 2:30-3:00 at about 6:40 pace. My afternoons were 45-60 minute runs at whatever I felt like running. My easy days were normally 45 minute runs at 7:00 pace. Frequently the easy days would be 30 easy, weights for 90 minute and then 15 minutes easy. All my runs (including the repeats but not the races) were in at least one set of sweats (I went so far as 2 sets of sweats sandwiched with 3 rainsuits were PO2 tanks).
I tried longer miles. I spent 5 weeks at 140-150 but didn't see the point since I got slower. I spent a year at 110-120. My best before that period was 2:10:41. My best during that period was 2:12:12. It took a year of running 85-95 before I got back to sub 2:12.
It can be argued that the periods of higher mileage made me stronger later. Whie that maybe true, I ran pretty fasta before I tried the higher milege and didn't improve dramatically after those periods.
Unless I am reading wrong this doesn't make sense.
If your mornings were 1:45-3:00 easy that means you were putting in 15+ miles (unless you were going slower than 7:00/mile, which would still be 13 miles total) a day, with one long day in there.
Forgetting the afternoon sessions, that throws your low mileage estimates off.
Very good link highligting the Benji Durden Marathon Training Plan.
http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/triathlons/trainmarathon.html#hill%20work
another version of the same thing - might be easier to print
I used Benji's plan for my last marathon and it worked great. I was coming off an injury and I had to start from scratch. Compared to most other plans, the main differences are:
1. You race more and use the races to determine your workout pacing. As you become more fit, your workouts become more demanding.
2. When you run hard, you run HARD. When you run easy, you run easy. I did more long runs but less overall mileage than previous plans.
It worked great for me. Thanks Benji.