dazedandnotconfused wrote:
For your average/beginner biker, over 20 mph. For a more seasoned biker, closer to 25 mph.
no way. I know cat 3s that don't average over 18 on a regular two hour training ride.
hell, as a cat 1 i hardly ever averaged over 20 on a training ride.
25 mph? HAA! that's like saying a 17 min 5k is good for a "seasoned runner". it is good, but it sure as hell isn't representative of most runners.
In a time trial, if you can ride under an hour for 40km you're doing pretty good. I'd say that's about the equivalent of a 16:30 5k but that's just a guess.
werwewr wrote:
In a time trial, if you can ride under an hour for 40km you're doing pretty good. I'd say that's about the equivalent of a 16:30 5k but that's just a guess.
personally, i'd put a sub 60 10 miler and a sub 60 40k on fairly equal footing, though the sub 60 40k can be quite a bit easier if someone drops the money on very fast equipment.
"on a regular road bike, averaging 18mph solo on moderately flat roads for 30 miles is very good."
False. I'm by no means elite but I'll go for 4 hr rides and avg over 20mph.
That's like the equivalent of saying someone who can run 8 minute miles for 6 miles is very good.
Large difference between group and solo.
If you look at local decent-sized triathlons, 22-25 mph for a 45 minute ride with some hills is a pretty competitive race effort. But as mention good cyclists in a group can average 25 mph as a longer training effort where they'd be under 20 mph solo.
I could be off on those paces but the point is there's a big difference.
werwewr wrote:
"on a regular road bike, averaging 18mph solo on moderately flat roads for 30 miles is very good."
False. I'm by no means elite but I'll go for 4 hr rides and avg over 20mph.
That's like the equivalent of saying someone who can run 8 minute miles for 6 miles is very good.
not false in any way, shape, or form. i've been cycling for 10+ years in six states and three countries and I can count on one hand the number of people who don't race at a high level that could do a solo sub 4 hour 80 mile ride.
either you're a magnificent outlier, your cycling computer is set for 650 wheels, or you're a liar.
doesn't matter in the least, though, as it doesn't change the facts of what I initially said.
Assuming you're on flat and windless courses and are riding while holding the hoods on a road bike, sustaining a steady speed of 20 mph appears to be equivalent to running at 8.35 mph (7:11 per mile). This isn't a predictor of performance (you might as well try to predict bench press performance from swimming times). But you can correlate the performances between sports. In other words, this doesn't mean that you can necessarily ride 20 miles in an hour on the hoods if you can run 7:11 pace for an hour; it means that's where those speeds place in the bell curves of cycling and running performance (it's where you'd stand in the pecking order in each sport if you could sustain either speed for a certain time). This is standardized for ideal conditions; the numbers change quickly if you encounter hard terrain or wind.
Position (and comfort) on the bike makes a difference, of course (especially in windy conditions), as does drafting, which is far more significant than it is in running. Riding a road bike at 20 mph on a flat, windless course while holding the hoods/tops normally requires the same power (wattage) as riding at 20.7 mph while in the drops. Using clip-on aerobars will boost the speed to about 21.4 mph, assuming you've practiced enough to be just as comfortable in this position. Going full-on aero (time trial bike, aero helmet, disc wheel, skin suit, shoe covers, etc.) can increase this even further, up to to around 22.3 mph. The faster you go, the more benefit you get from having aero components or being in a good aero position. Drafting other riders can increase your speed for any given wattage by anywhere from 1.5 mph (effectively following a single rider at 18 mph moving speed) to a whopping 7 mph (at very high speeds or when centered in a big group while going into a headwind), depending on the speed of the group, the terrain, the wind conditions, and how good you are at finding the right position in the group to take maximum advantage of the draft.
A time trial (normally done using aero components) of 40k (24.86 miles) in an hour is kind of a benchmark in amateur cycling, similar to a 3-hour marathon being a big barrier for amateur road runners (or a 5-hour century ride for amateur long-distance cyclists). On most courses (even easy ones with little or no wind, a sub-hour 40k is considered a quite respectable time for a novice amateur racer and would be an extremely good time for a recreational rider.
give it a rest wrote:
The time trial is the race of truth in cycling.
These are the winning times per division for the 12 mile Tour of the Catskills in NY. The race attracts a good field across the range.
Pro/1/2 Men 29.78 mph (good domestic pros, not the top)
Cat 3 Men 28.3 (ammies but training seriously)
Cat 4 Men 27.47 (ammies one rank above newbie)
Cat 5 Men 25.69 (ammies and new to the sport. )
My friend was a 1:48.8 800m runner 9 years ago. Now he took up cycling recently and is a cat 5. He is around the 25.5 mark. Once he figures it out, he will improve.
1. I don't think too many actual pros race the ToC. In fact probably no actual pros.
2. The winning time is a pretty unreliable indicator of the typical times in each category. The top cat 3, 4, and 5 riders are usually on a fast track to cat 1/2. I would be pretty confident that the cat 3 winner in most TTs would be no worst than in the middle of the Cat 1/2 results, probably higher. Same thing for the Cat 4 winner compared to the 3s. Very often the Cat 5 winning time is faster than the 4s, since you are stuck in 5s for 10 races no matter how fast you are, whereas you can go from Cat 4 to Cat 3 with three wins.
3. It is hard to call a cat 5 a "newbie" in the context of making a comparison to running. Even a cat 5 is probably in the top 10% of hobby joggers. Bike racing doesn't accommodate losers like your local 5K does.
I would say riding 20 mph on regular terrain (some hills, not major climbs) for a 30-40 mph is about the equivalent of running 7:00 mile pace for a 7-8 mile run. I get roughly equal results in run and bike only events, so I think I am probably a good example of the equivalence. I am probably a slightly better runner, because my height and lack of flexibility hurts me on the bike a bit (bad TT position) compared to running.
Derek Treadwell was sub 4:00 miler at U of Maine who bike races in the Northeast. He is a good Cat 1 amateur rider, especially at the TTs, but not the best and not a pro as far as I know. This should give you an idea of how competitive bike racing is. Of course he is a little older now, it is hard to say how good he might have been on the bike if he took that up instead of running first.
crazy raisin wrote:
Large difference between group and solo.
If you look at local decent-sized triathlons, 22-25 mph for a 45 minute ride with some hills is a pretty competitive race effort. But as mention good cyclists in a group can average 25 mph as a longer training effort where they'd be under 20 mph solo.
I could be off on those paces but the point is there's a big difference.
As a group triathletes are weak bikers. Top triathlon bikers (amateur) are basically good Cat 4s in terms of their biking ability. How do I know, I am always top 5-10% triathlon biker (top 5% runner) and in bike racing TTs I can occasionally get on the podium in a Cat 4 race.
I did solo 20 on my fixie last Thursday - 3:25, 3:23, 3:31, 3:34, 3:13, 3:03, 3:32, 3:30, 3:34, 3:38, 3:33, 3:32, 3:32, 3:58 (big hill), 3:31, 3:21, 3:28, 3:02, 3:14, 3:34.
Then I did solo 12 on Saturday - 3:52, 3:46, 3:57, 3:30, 3:10, 3:03, 3:28, 3:26, 2:48, 3:03, 3:57, 3:37.
Its all on roads with a lot of corners, intersections, wind, and traffic. I time it with my running watch so its not 100% accurate. It seems to give me a decent workout, but not really taxing. I can feel it the whole time and I do have to pay attention to hold pace, but I don't even feel it the next day.
I used to do time trials (20k)with a large group (70 riders) once a week, when I started I aveaged 17 mph (giant orc 3) and though it was really hard, by the end of summer I was aveaging around 23.5 mph. which was about aveage for the group. the top trier were around 27 or 28. bottom trier were around 17 or 18.
it was a lot of fun, I miss it, there was NO drafting allowed,
in the beginning I was the first to take off and each 30 seconds a new group riders based on times would go, I remember my first time everyone from every group caught and passed me...... by the end of summer I was doing so of the catching and passing....it was LOT OF FUN....
at the time I was a 18 flat 5ker
senat wrote:
dazedandnotconfused wrote:For your average/beginner biker, over 20 mph. For a more seasoned biker, closer to 25 mph.
no way. I know cat 3s that don't average over 18 on a regular two hour training ride.
hell, as a cat 1 i hardly ever averaged over 20 on a training ride.
25 mph? HAA! that's like saying a 17 min 5k is good for a "seasoned runner". it is good, but it sure as hell isn't representative of most runners.
You're entitled to your own opinion, man. No need to denigrate others.
The times being thrown around in here are ridiculous. I didn't know there were so many pro cyclists on letsrun.
20mph is fast. If you're saying a beginner should be able for that then you're either trolling or you don't know what you're talking about.
Due to so many variables, MPH is a useless metric. Measuring power output is a much better comparison. EOT.
I was a reasonably serious amateur triathlete for a number of years. I was running mid to low 17s 5Ks at the time and could hold 20-22mph on a 1-2hr hard training ride.
Zlatan wrote:
The times being thrown around in here are ridiculous. I didn't know there were so many pro cyclists on letsrun.
20mph is fast. If you're saying a beginner should be able for that then you're either trolling or you don't know what you're talking about.
I agree. 20mph for 4 hours = computer calibrated wrong.
When I was cross training this spring I did a lot of biking on an old, shitty mountain bike. On flat, even terrain I would average about 16 mph for an easy 20-30 mile ride and about 18 mph for a moderately hard 20-30 mile ride. For a shorter, hard ride I would average around 20 mph. With a decent road bike I'm I would have been a few mph faster
What about a generic a@s mountain bike on paved trails?
I seem to do between 17-20 mph on that depending on effort/terrain. Is there a difference in speed between a road bike on paved ground versus a mountain bike on paved ground?
I agree. The OP wrote "6-7 mins/mile for a normal run." Let's assume someone whose "normal" training pace is 6-7 mins/mile would be approximately what I was: a 17:20 5k guy, respectable on the local level. (I also raced Cat 2 in VT, MA, NH and ME for ten years.)
Sub-hour for a 40k TT (24.8 mph), with aero bars on a flat course, would make someone a solid club rider--again, respectable on the local level. If you're time-trialing at that pace, then you're likely doing your "normal" 2-3 hour training rides (no aero bars, moderate climbing, on the hoods at least some of the time) at no more than 18-20 mph.
I realize this post is fairly old, but it shows up well on Google when searching for this topic.
I have to agree with the original respondent, with their correction to what's a good average speed for a cyclist. Its certainly not the 20+ mph average mentioned for beginners!
As long as cycling has been popular, for a rider to achieve a 20mph average is sort of a holy grail. Once an experienced cyclist reaches this 20+ mph milestone its a significant accomplishment!
As a an amateur club rider, crit racer CAT5, I've reached that milestone through much hard work and determined training. I crit train and group ride with CAT 1, 2,3 + riders, in addition to several pro and collegiate racers, (all 20 years younger than me), as well as Masters and a current Olympian cyclist.
I can testify that the higher caliber riders mentioned will ride over 20mph average, but only with a solid effort. For several miles at a time, working in a pack, all these various riders can maintain 25mph average, but not for more than several miles at a time. In time trials, without the draft, on road bike, its considered respectable for any of these riders to finish a 25 mile TT in under a half hour.
I've known the higher caliber riders mentioned, to do centuries in just under 5 hours and that's fast. Not many riders can sustain that.
In a an hour long all out crit effort, these higher caliber riders will do perhaps 28 to 30 mph average, but that's in tight groups, in a closed course and absolutely frying themselves in the process.
For me personally, as a 50+ year old CAT5, on a decent bike, I'll do solo rides at just over 20mph average on occasion. Typically speaking, longer rides like half centuries, that average gets knocked down to about 18 mph, or even lower depending on head winds and elevations.
Just chiming in to help set the record straight.
Respects,
Todd