Is High Mileage Overrated?

So before on your threads you say you were inspired by Amby Burfoot and Bill Rodgers and 1970s type marathoners,and do that type of training, but now you're saying you want to do what Lagat and Lawi do and run lower mileage but "all quality". Why not a balance of the two?

BTW, I'm pretty sure that Lagat/Lawi don't do 60 mpw all quality year round. They probably have a base phase where they run higher mileage, and a couple slower recovery/easy days in their high quality weeks. Also Bill Rodgers and those people raced often which was their speedwork.

I like higher mileage myself, and I'm going into college and doing 90-110 mpw as base training, but still doing progression runs, hills, and speed development type stuff.

I saw your r2w log and it seems impossible to do 12/8 doubles with a 20 miler at the end of the week, no wonder you're getting bored. My long runs are barely 90 min itself, and you're doing that everyday.

In season the mileage is probably going to drop to 70-85 with more quality. I think thats a good balance. And FWIW my 5k PR is only 16:38 so i'm not much faster than you.

lol i remember when you were all serious about high milage for like 2 months. you are a joke. and super slow.

HS Senior wrote:

I like higher mileage myself, and I'm going into college and doing 90-110 mpw as base training, but still doing progression runs, hills, and speed development type stuff.

why are you doing so much mileage the summer before your freshman year? do you want to develop at all in college? who is your coach? are they telling you to do this? are they stupid? please see numerous threads about mileage progression on letsrun.

Aren't you also the guy who thought it was a good idea to buy a house with a few other guys and run 140mpw for a few year?. And you thought it was a better financial decision to skip college and work part time just so you could run mega milage?

Excellent trolling.

no. I run 140 miles a week and have seen improvements every time I've increased my mileage.

I am assuming you're in HS? If you want to race 5K mostly, that is way too many miles. You don't need to run that much to run 3.1 miles fast. I would think 80 miles should be tops.

keanu wrote:

HS Senior wrote:

I like higher mileage myself, and I'm going into college and doing 90-110 mpw as base training, but still doing progression runs, hills, and speed development type stuff.

why are you doing so much mileage the summer before your freshman year? do you want to develop at all in college? who is your coach? are they telling you to do this? are they stupid? please see numerous threads about mileage progression on letsrun.

yeah, i've talked with my coach and he gave me those numbers. Its a natural progression as I was running 80 before my senior year. I dont' think 100 is too much going into college.

NotAustin18 wrote:

Fair enough. I just wanted to try it out and see if it worked, and I don't think it did. I can admit I responded impulsively, if I took a moment to step back I would've reminded myself "long term" and maybe tried upping the mileage 5-10 mpw by year. But too late now. I think high mileage is pointless.

exactly, you were a bit impulsive in some respect, but you obviously have an incredible amount of drive to flog yourself like that.

now you ARE taking a moment to step back, and once your body is recovered from the beating you gave it, you will have your motivation back and will want to try it again, trust me.

next time, consider doing something more like what i suggested; going big for a few weeks, then about 60% of that for a few weeks.

few people have the willpower or physical capability to put in 15 hours of running or more for 5 weeks straight. that is not normal. congratulations, you've got a gift, now it's time to refine it.

alright guys, let's lay off the kid.

yes, he is being pretty impulsive and not letting the work he's done sink in before coming to conclusions.

yes, he was stupid to plan out his 140 mpw altitude living with marathoners thingy.

but he loves to run, and i'd like to see him get faster.

austin, i know you're reading this. stay away from 100+ mpw for a couple years at least. start doing 70-80 and just hold it there. assuming you can be back to 70-80 mpw by september comfortably, stay at that mileage until january, then make some decisions about how it's going.

you've got the determination to do big things. i would never run 140 mpw, much less a month of 110+. but i've never done more than 80 for more than a few weeks at a time. i've got years to build up to 100. i probably won't go over 85 again until late november of this year.

Ok sorry, I didn't answer earlier. I was doing stuff.

Yes, I was impulsive. I have a very impulsive personality. Sure as heck wasn't smart to try that mileage. I was inspired by Bill and Amby so I threw caution to the wind and went for it hoping for quick gains. Now I'm going to try and be patient and try to not be impulsive.

I don't have a coach right now so that's why its hard to stay focused and patient. I'm going to community college this year and they don't have a team so I'm training on my own. I may transfer afterwards, I may not, it depends on what floats my boat then (I'm impulsive so I'll decide when I get there). My former HS coaches rarely answer their phones. One is busy all the time and doesn't have texting on his cell phone for some reason, and the other is like me and has his phone on silent and always has it off or in the other room. I would prefer to check in with them weekly, but I get to chat with one of them about once a month so that's okay.

As for why I managed to do that mileage jump out of nowhere and not get injured, I'm not sure. I've never had an issue with injuries even though I've done stupid impulsive stuff before(one summer I did 3 hard workouts in a row cuz I was new to running and didn't know better). I think I'm not injury prone because I do strides twice a week pretty much year round, so my form and bio mechanics are pretty good. Also, one of my HS coaches says I'm short and stocky (5'6'' 130 lbs) so its harder to get injured with small legs than big legs(my 6'0'' to 6'5'' friends get injured constantly).

And thanks to the positive people who gave their suggestions. I know I could easily go back to high mileage, but I don't like the mental toll it takes. After running the high mileage, I don't want the mental toll of having to run twice a day. I just want to run once a day. So 60 mpw is the plan for now. I'll force myself not to do anything stupid this upcoming training cycle and keep it consistent. If I see good steady enjoyable improvement I'll keep at it in future build ups. If I have mixed feelings or am disappointed with my results, I'll go talk to both of my former HS coaches and get their take on what to do from there. One of them ran 1420 5k and 2908 10k and 1:06 half in college off of 85-90 mpw, and the other never mentions his college times but he was at least low/mid 15 5k and trained kind of impulsively like me but he's older and more mature about things now.

My goals for the upcoming training cycle are to run sub 430 1500m(pr is 448) and pr in the 5k.

Good lord, you change your training every 3-4 weeks, and always between extremes.

THAT is probably the issue.

reed wrote:

if in a couple of months you're running PRs left and right, you'll know the answer, that high mileage works

He will stop the high mileage, focus on quality and in a few months declare high mileage doesn't work.

That is how it usually happens. There really is no reason today for people to JUST run high mileage with no quality and expect great results. There is just too much training information online. Heck, you can put together a better high mileage, high quality training program just reading LR.

Did you actually read anything on your previous thread?

Running 140 miles for an 18 yr old, training for 5ks, is a big waste of time. You're navel gazing and spinning your wheels.

Go back and read your old thread.

As others have pointed out, keep the big picture in mind. It's not that high mileage or low mileage does or doesn't work. Stop thinking like that. There's right training and wrong training for different parts of the year/season. If you're in base, it's fine to be a bit worn out by aerobic volume alone as long as there is some sub-threshold running and something to keep your turnover reasonable (strides, short hill sprints, etc). Still, don't expect these 5ks to be anything but a bit of speedwork. You are not going to be sharp at all if you're truly doing base. Good base should transition into some faster reps on the track at 3k-5k pace and harder hill work while still maintaining that aerobic capacity you worked so hard to build with a reasonable long run (I'd say 20 miles is too much) and plenty of easy running in between the workouts. Let those fast reps on the track be your indicator as to how fit you are and when you should start sharpening up to race. Give that second period 2 months or so and you should be rocking and rolling. Again, it's not either or, high good, low bad, high bad, low good - it's a whole system with appropriate stresses at appropriate times. I'd also suggest, as others have, to stop flip flopping around on your training! Find a coach, read some books, something. Get on a plan you believe in and that can keep you motivated and stick with it through a whole training cycle before evaluating its worth. Also, don't be so rigid about paces, mpw, strict periodization, etc. Distance training shouldn't be so complicated. Respond to how your body feels with appropriate stimulus and rest.

Good luck!

Well stated.

Obviously drawing a conclusion from such a short period without any complete cycles is silly.

But high mileage is overrated by some and not by others.

And what works for one will not always work for another.

My feeling has always been whatever the line is for maximum efficient mileage, it is better to fall short of it than to exceed it.

You will stay healthier, sharper and have the ability to train more consistently that way.

You and I both posted on the RW forum awhile back. From what I remember, you were a high 17's guy then. So that means at some point, you made some big improvement to get to your current PR of 16:53.

I would suggest returning to the training you did leading up to your 16:53. Hopefully, whatever you were doing right will work for you again.

I think the question is not whether or not high mileage is overatered, but rather is it worth it to spend the time running 140 miles a week if you are just an average runner that might win a local 5k now and again?

If you love spending that time running, then great have at it. But if you are just interested in results, you are deep into diminishing returns for 5k results with anything over 80 miles per week.

There are several things people f*ck up when it comes to high mileage training.

my thoughts on high mileage

1. It is not for everybody. There is a difference between training for a 800 guy, a 1500 guy, a 5ker and training for a 10k/marathoner. I see a lot of supposed 5kers on this board and elsewhere bragging about their 100 mile weeks yet they can't break 16 minutes. Quality over quantity, although you can have both if you do it right.

2. High mileage can mean loss of speed which can be essential for 1500/5kers, not to mention injuries. Slogging 7:30 pace for too long isn't very helpful unless you want to be the next Dean Karnazes or something. Quality over quantity.

3. Doubles are essential. You would think this goes without saying but some people think its a good idea to just go for a 12 miler every morning every day and nothing else. This might work if you are a marathoner but if you are serious about training speedwork/intervals and cross training/lifting/swimming/etc. are necessary not optional. Doubles also helps prevent injuries if you are not the "long run" type, I myself (as a 800/1500 guy) could never hold up to runs over 6 or 7 miles no matter the pace.