curiosity wrote:
aside from kiprop he could prob beat everyone from 1500-HM
sometime tell me how this transformation occured
He was always good, from a very young age. Brits have known this since the late 90's
You are just another ignorant poster looking for something that isn't there.
Looked like Farah was pretty bent over to me. I think he went prancing off excitedly because they announced he got the record.
MikeM wrote:
For the person saying MO didn't show promise early on...are you kidding me? He was a junior phenom. This didn't come out of nowhere.
2003 European U23 Championships, 5000m, Silver Medallist
2001 European Junior Cross Country Champion
2001 European Junior 5000m Champion
Totally looks like he came from the couch to 3:28 and change.
Winning a European junior cross championship is not considered phenom by world standards and certainly not consistent with what Farah has accomplished since then. There are plenty of African juniors out there that would laugh at that and most, if not all of them, will never run 3:28. Heck I remember Geb, as a junior, almost running down William Segei.
Winning a European junior cross championship is not considered phenom by world standards
EXACTLY
he was always good up to european level
now at 30 he's practically unbeatable from 1500-half marathon
on the world stage
Someone has to be the best, now that Bekele is in decline. That postition will be taken by the most ambitious runner, who happens to be Mo Farah right now.
It doesn't add up.
This guy, who hadn't previously sniffed 3:30 in 30 years of life - suddenly is the 4th fastest 1500m ever?
I can understand with better training methods you can improve your AEROBIC fitness and bring those PRs down, but, in general, you are born with a certain amount of sprint ability. You can't improve on it. Certainly not at 30 after doing years - decade+ - of track workouts prior.
He mentioned he improved only 1%-2% over the years and that he's always been around. His 3:28 PR is way over 2% from when he joined Salazar.
I am not necessarily saying he is doing anything illegal but it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that he's taking something that is legal today but could be illegal in 5 years.
Yep Bolt doesn't have to train at all. Those weight works and sprints are just for show. He would be running just as fast if he spent his whole life reading letsrun
WhyNot? wrote:
It doesn't add up.
This guy, who hadn't previously sniffed 3:30 in 30 years of life - suddenly is the 4th fastest 1500m ever?
I can understand with better training methods you can improve your AEROBIC fitness and bring those PRs down, but, in general, you are born with a certain amount of sprint ability. You can't improve on it. Certainly not at 30 after doing years - decade+ - of track workouts prior.
He mentioned he improved only 1%-2% over the years and that he's always been around. His 3:28 PR is way over 2% from when he joined Salazar.
I am not necessarily saying he is doing anything illegal but it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that he's taking something that is legal today but could be illegal in 5 years.
WhyNot? wrote: ...but it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that he's taking something that is legal today but could be illegal in 5 years.
^^THIS^^
A Gray Zone runner, as well as Rupp. Or, at least RUPP was up through the end of indoor season.
The problem with all the doping theories is that they generally rely on the belief that big improvements can't happen without drugs.
But in Mo's case, he hasn't had many opportunities to crush a 1500. Over the last several years he has generally run for the win, not for time. Last year he could have been in 3:29/30 shape and the year before in 3:31/32 shape... and no one would have questioned his improvement curve if he went out and ran those times. However, he didn't bust a fast 1500 during those years.
It is much more suspicious when you see guys get buried for years in all out 3:31/2 type races, running 3:33 or 3:34 and then all of a sudden drop a 3:28. Thats not what happened here.
There are reasons to suspect Mo... but the "sudden improvement" isn't really one of them. For those who state past PRs only without considering the circumstance of those off-distance PRs, clearly you don't understand the sport.
As others have mentioned, and what AlSal et al have credited in interviews: 1. an amped up mix of quality to go with Mo's 100+ miles/week, 2. strength/ancillary exercises (apparently Mo had a number of muscular weaknesses when he 1st started with AlSal), 3. sprint/form training (essentially just a running specific version of # 2)
Seems like Salazar's training coaching/innovation has largely been tweaks in the organization of planning...hard to say which aspect is having the effect.
Re doping speculation: I think the purported increase in Farah's training intensity is just as suspicious, if not more so than the improved performance (since it seems like much of what doping does is facilitate recovery/allow for more intense workloads). That being said, I think NOP sticks with the legal/grey-area forms of doping.
btw, you may see a similar type of improvement from Mo in the 5000. But when you consider he was probably in 12:50 and 12:45 shape the last 2 years respectively, when he drops a 12:42 or some such thing, you shouldn't use it as doping fodder. The fact that he could get to 12:42 (or whatever it will be when he races all out) alone is enough to be suspicios... regardless of the steps it took (or didn't take) to get there.
"Yes, running lots of mileage, lots of speed, big volume for workouts, and also hitting the weight room for months/years will do that. It is called fitness."
-ohhhh, that's right...so kiprop doesn't do any of those things, nor does he have "fitness". what a joke the world of int'l ath;etics has become. follow some of the old and new mid/distance guys on twitter, and you'll see the homogenous doubt about this recent run. in fact, it was his 1500m opener of the season!
c'mon now wrote:
follow some of the old and new mid/distance guys on twitter, and you'll see the homogenous doubt about this recent run. in fact, it was his 1500m opener of the season!
Who please?
WhyNot? wrote:
He mentioned he improved only 1%-2% over the years and that he's always been around. His 3:28 PR is way over 2% from when he joined Salazar.
His pre-Salazar 1500m pb was 3:33.98 [Zurich in 2009]. The improvement to 3:28.81 is 2.4%. I think it's fair to characterize that as "about 2%".
More to the point is that a 2% improvement is MASSIVE at this level, but that's a different discussion.
he's drinking dat juice.
Mo's 5000m sub 13:30 performances mapped chronologically. Whatever happened in 2011, it was significant. It wasn't until after his Indoor Birmingham 13:10 that he joined Salazar. Five months later he was at 12:53 and beating all comers, about a full year after running 13:05 for 7th place at Gateshead in 2010.
13:09.40 Mohamed Farah 6r1 Heusden-Zolder 22.07.2006
13:07.00 Mohamed Farah 10 Bruxelles 14.09.2007
13:25.01 Mohamed Farah 17 Ostrava 12.06.2008
13:08.11 Mohamed Farah 4 Bruxelles 05.09.2008
13:12.28 Mohamed Farah 11 Oslo 03.07.2009
13:09.14 Mohamed Farah 1 London 24.07.2009
13:19.94 Mohamed Farah 3h1 Berlin 20.08.2009
13:19.69 Mohamed Farah 7 Berlin 23.08.2009
13:22.33 Mohamed Farah 13 Bruxelles 04.09.2009
13:05.66 Mohamed Farah 7 Gateshead 10.07.2010
12:57.94 Mohamed Farah 5 Zürich 19.08.2010
13:10.60 Mohamed Farah 1 Birmingham 19.02.2011
13:06.14 Mohamed Farah 1 Birmingham 10.07.2011
12:53.11 Mohamed Farah 1 Monaco 22.07.2011
13:23.36 Mohamed Farah 1 Daegu 04.09.2011
13:12.87 Mohamed Farah 1 Eagle Rock 18.05.2012
12:56.98 Mohamed Farah 1 Eugene 02.06.2012
13:29.91 Mohamed Farah 1 Helsinki 27.06.2012
13:06.04 Mohamed Farah 1 London 13.07.2012
13:26.00 Mohamed Farah 3h1 London 08.08.2012
13:15.68 Mohamed Farah 1 Eagle Rock 17.05.2013
13:05.88 Mohamed Farah 2 Eugene 01.06.2013
13:14.24 Mohamed Farah 1 Birmingham 30.06.2013
Anyone else remember Farah winning this 5000m in 2009? Guess that was a flash of what was to come...
From the Aviva 5000m in 2009
1 Farah , Mohammed GBR 13:09.14 20
2 Mutahi , Sammy KEN 13:10.17 16
3 Kigen , Mike Kipruto KEN 13:17.79 14
4 Gebremeskel , Dejen ETH 13:20.45 12
5 Shaheen , Saif Saaeed QAT 13:29.31 10
6 Abdullah , Ahmad Hassan QAT 13:29.59 8
7 Abdirahman , Abdihakem USA 13:33.79 6
8 Asmerom , Bolota USA 13:36.60 4
9 Pifer , Stephen USA 13:45.01 3
10 Thompson , Christopher GBR 13:50.34 3
11 Forrest , Shawn AUS 13:52.08 3
12 McNeill , David AUS 14:00.75 3
13 Draper , Mark GBR 14:08.72
14 McLeod , Ryan GBR 14:18.53
Kiplagat , Bernard Kipchirchir KEN DNF
Geele , Moumin SOM DNF
Cragg , Alistair Ian IRL DNF
Overall , Scott GBR DNF
Birgen , Bethwell KEN DNF
A bunch of posts got deleted in this thread. Someone wrote that he was showing signs of being just like the Chinese women of the 90's. A few people including myself suggested that he'd have to run a lot faster than that for the comparison to be accurate.
I've been posting here for 10 yeas and have no idea why non-controversial posts contributing to the thread would get deleted.
Not a big deal, just very odd.
very good E.P.O, that is what they use.
Surprise! wrote:
A bunch of posts got deleted in this thread. Someone wrote that he was showing signs of being just like the Chinese women of the 90's. A few people including myself suggested that he'd have to run a lot faster than that for the comparison to be accurate.
I've been posting here for 10 yeas and have no idea why non-controversial posts contributing to the thread would get deleted.
Not a big deal, just very odd.
Whoops, my bad. Those posts were in a similar thread. Sorry letsrun mods!
You guys are f-ing mornons. How good is Ritz? Farah is better. The reason I bring Ritz up is I grew up where Dathan did and saw him run. He ran 8:41 as a junior in HS. He ran a conference meet 1600 in 4:05.8. This from a kid that had no speed. It was not a leap of faith to think that he can run sub 13 for the 5k and from his early signs of mile/1600 ability it is not a leap to think he could run way faster than his 3:42 1500 pr. What is sub 13 translate for a 1500?
So take Farah, someone more talented and faster! As Rojo pointed out, GEB was a 5k/10k guy and ran a world record indoors for 1500. What would make you think the current king of 5k/10k couldn't have similar wheels?
Talent and hard training do just that...make you faster.
Yeah..must have been doping. Truly stupid given the level of talent we are talking about. Did anyone here run sub 8:45 in HS or sub 4:10 in HS that keep saying doping? That is the level of talent we are talking about. If Wejo can go from barely breaking 10 to running 28 low, then yes Mo Farah can legally go sub 27 and run 3:28.8.