Citizen Runner wrote:
Liquori has a World Cup silver medal in the 5000.
Which was far more impressive than Pre's faggy limp at Munich.
He also had three #1 World rankings, a #2 World ranking, and a #3 World ranking. Pre's best ranking was an also-ran #4.
Liquori won numerous NCAA individual and team championships. He won one of history's most famous match races, the Dream Mile against Jim Ryun.
Liquori was a household name. Pre was only known to West Coast hicks and hardcore track fans.
If Liquori hadn't pulled his hamstring before the 76 OT he would have an Olympic medal. The tragedy of his career is that he was hurt in both 72 and 76. He made the Olympic Team in 68 as a 19 year old freshman. The consumate racer, he ran to win, times were secondary.
He was the quintesinnal track athlete.
He was quoted as saying (back in the 70s) "If track is classical music, road racing is rock and roll". He viewed road racing disdainfully.
He once started last at the NYCM to see how many people he could pass.
And he was one of the founders of the popular running store franchise, Athletic Attic.
Wisenheimer wrote:
Middle Distance Analyst wrote:Don't sell Liquori short. He had a damn good career - outlasted many of his contemporaries. After moving on from the mile, he stepped up to the 5000 and was ranked #1 in the world in '77 an PRed @ 13:15. That was damn fast for that era and would compare to a 12:50 today.
I agree that Liquori was a great runner. He was a little older than me, so he was one of my favorite runners. But a 13:15 in 1977 compares to a 13:15 today, not a 12:50. It's still 5000 meters.
I disagree, you have to compare times where they fit within an era; would you say Jesse Owens was just a 10.3 sprinter?
His win over Ryun in the original Dream Mile was such a classic. I've followed the sport for a bit under 50 years. After all that time only a handful of races really stand out to me but I can recall that one as if it happened a year or two ago. You just knew that Ryun would eventually pounce and beat Liquori but he never could.
How would Liquori have done in the Montreal 5,000?
IN 1975 he was ranked #3 in world, Dixon beat him in Goteborg(13:23).
In 1977 Liquori was ranked #1 in world. He defeated WR holder Quax &Yifter in Zurich (13:16),but lost to Yifter at world cup(13:15). THe WR in 1977 was Quax 13:12.
Montreal results Viren,Quax, Hiidenbrand, Dixon.
So Liquori ran 13:15 when the WR was 13:12. In order to properly evaluate
an athletes career one should view the career in terms of the context in which the athlete competed in- ie how he did relative to his contemporaries. 13:15 when WR was 13:12 speaks for itself.
Given that he's a jazz guitarist, I'm not sure it's accurate to say "disdainfully."
LI Runner wrote:
He was quoted as saying (back in the 70s) "If track is classical music, road racing is rock and roll". He viewed road racing disdainfully.
2:03 - 1:51. they closed pretty fast!
liquori is so smooth compared to ryun's bobblehead look.
[quote]domestic pro wrote:
2:03 - 1:51. they closed pretty fast!
liquori is so smooth compared to ryun's bobblehead look.________________________________________________________
Both great but not John Walker._
Wild Cat wrote:
[quote]domestic pro wrote:
2:03 - 1:51. they closed pretty fast!
liquori is so smooth compared to ryun's bobblehead look.________________________________________________________
Both great but not John Walker._
Ryun, at his peak ('66/'67), would have blown Walker off the track on a synthetic surface.
If you ever meet Marty, a great guy in person, ask him about the Dream Mile against Ryun. I was floored when I asked Marty about the race, and he freely admitted that Ryun being ill and likely in early season form is the reason he was able to hold Ryun off in the last lap. He said Ryun had been clobbered by allergies and any other runner would have skipped the race. Sure enough, when I read "The Milers" by Nelson, one of the Kvalheim brothers mentions that Ryun was so beset by allergies that the morning of the showdown with Liquori, his "...eyes were swollen shut." A lot of people hate Ryun around here, but I would think that took a lot of guts to go out there and race in that condition considering the way the media had been hammering Ryun since the '68 Olympics. And Kudos to Liquori for being so honest about the event. He is not a vain man or a bullshi**er.
As anyone who's met Marty will attest, he is one personable guy. He is like the guy in the bar who wants to buy you a beer and ask about your best race. Jim Ryun, on the other hand, is a total stick in the mud. I respect them both.
Liquori's best moment: "What is El Guerrouj thinking?"
Met Marty wrote:
If you ever meet Marty, a great guy in person, ask him about the Dream Mile against Ryun. I was floored when I asked Marty about the race, and he freely admitted that Ryun being ill and likely in early season form is the reason he was able to hold Ryun off in the last lap. He said Ryun had been clobbered by allergies and any other runner would have skipped the race. Sure enough, when I read "The Milers" by Nelson, one of the Kvalheim brothers mentions that Ryun was so beset by allergies that the morning of the showdown with Liquori, his "...eyes were swollen shut." A lot of people hate Ryun around here, but I would think that took a lot of guts to go out there and race in that condition considering the way the media had been hammering Ryun since the '68 Olympics. And Kudos to Liquori for being so honest about the event. He is not a vain man or a bullshi**er.
How many of today's top runners would pull out of the race feeling like that?
I think those guys raced more often- less money and it was all under the table.
I liked Liquari when I was a teenager. I was a Pre-fanatic and really liked Marty.
Marty was my high school hero along with Pre. I'm a '75 graduate.
Fave moments: Marty runs a 3:55 indoor mile in '75 the week after a crappy race (ran with a bad toothache). Awesome.
That spring, he chases Bayi to a world record in the mile for his PR of 3:52.
Pre, spring '74, runs 12:51 3 mile in a duel with Frank Shorter. Great stuff.
As for making fun of Ryun's head wobbling, it's just not an issue. Watch the video of him beating Kip Keino in London in the summer of '67. His last 200 is insane, just ripping fast.
Marty was fantastic, especially in '77, but Marty at his best would never, ever beat Jim Ryun at his best. I think we all know this, including Marty.
no one wrote:
Liquori's best moment: "What is El Guerrouj thinking?"
.
Good one. 2004 Oly 5000 is my favorite Liquori commentary and one of the greatest races of all timeeee. He said something like, " El Guerrouj could eat a candy bar at 63 sec pace". And later, " they turned it into a mile race and El Guerrouj is the greatest miler of all time". Or that's what I remember him saying....loved it.
subfive wrote:
no one wrote:Liquori's best moment: "What is El Guerrouj thinking?"
.
Good one. 2004 Oly 5000 is my favorite Liquori commentary and one of the greatest races of all timeeee. He said something like, " El Guerrouj could eat a candy bar at 63 sec pace". And later, " they turned it into a mile race and El Guerrouj is the greatest miler of all time". Or that's what I remember him saying....loved it.
Is there still a video around with this commentary?
I kinda wanna see it! wrote:
subfive wrote:.
Good one. 2004 Oly 5000 is my favorite Liquori commentary and one of the greatest races of all timeeee. He said something like, " El Guerrouj could eat a candy bar at 63 sec pace". And later, " they turned it into a mile race and El Guerrouj is the greatest miler of all time". Or that's what I remember him saying....loved it.
Is there still a video around with this commentary?
They've removed all that stuff due to copyright law violations.