yyy wrote:
Cacho.
LOL.
Someone who ran way above what he had before at an Olympics held in his own country!
And then sets a pb of 3:28 at the age of 30 after years failing to break 3:31!
He's one of the more obvious dopers IMO
yyy wrote:
Cacho.
LOL.
Someone who ran way above what he had before at an Olympics held in his own country!
And then sets a pb of 3:28 at the age of 30 after years failing to break 3:31!
He's one of the more obvious dopers IMO
just sayin wrote:
and furthermore if kiprop is clean well he's the clean wr holder
cos none of those sub 3-29 guys are clean either
http://www.alltime-athletics.com/m_1500ok.htmif there is then tell me which one?
That is ridiculous that El G has 7 of the top 8 and 13 of the top 20 performances. Drugs or not, dude was insane.
Also, he ran sub-3:30 33 times. Absolutely ridiculous.
ryan foreman wrote:
Easily he is the man with the best chance. With good conditions, good pacing, and above all if he truly has desire, then I think he can get close to it. I would be only a little surprised if he does it. But only because I question his "killer instinct" to achieve his goal.
In any case, there is no way his PB should be in the high 3:28s. It should be a good 2 seconds faster than that.
I think you're way optimistic on his potential. He is almost a pure 1500 runner and has been involved in lots of paced races since he won the Olympic title in 2008. He only broke 3:30 (maybe even 3:31!) for first time last year and he always seems to run his best early season. I think last year he ran a 3:29 in Doha (where many athletes seem to run their season's best times, in May!?) and a 3:28 in late June. I know he got injured, but he's never looked at his best in the Zurich's or Brussels or peak season meets.
I'd say 3:28 high is about right for him. With ideal pacing he may get down to 3:28 low, but I honestly don't think he'll get anywhere near EL G's obviously doped record. Certainly not within 1.5 secs without peds.
Who discovered that Kiprop is clean and everyone else under 3:29 is dirty?
they're all obvious dopers
cacho? spain had a national blood doping plan in place for barcelona '92
it's not new news
Raptured wrote:
Also, he ran sub-3:30 33 times. Absolutely ridiculous.
That's what happens when you have EPO and a whole bunch of personal pace makers that follow you to every elite meet and train with you for the sole purpose of running for fast times. If other top athletes from the past had the same set up, a bunch of top athletes sacrificed to one athlete's development in training and racing, then they would have run a lot faster too. Although not 3:26 flat. The set up he had in Morocco was akin to those they had in the GDR.
He never broke down with obvious injuries (I think he had piles once or twice) and he was running against other ped enhanced runners who were able to take him to 1100m in the right sort of time and push him over the last lap (e.g Lagat & Ngeny). It's just not feasibly possible to run at or close to WR times week in week out over several seasons and over several distances, naturally.
His powers of recovery were not natural. He had many team mates and training partners busted for peds. He was running in an era when times dropped across the board beyond the rate of historical progression and at a time when there was no test for EPO.
Anyone who believes that he was a natural 3:26 runner is naive. He was the dominant athlete of his generation, sure, but probably no better than a 3:29/3:30 runner clean.
anyone who knows a sub 3-29 clean athlete off the list
point him out like cos he ain't there unless it's kiprop
Kiprop set a PR in September of 2011 (winning Rieti) and his 2010 season best was on August 29.
Last year he was hurt so it didn't finish well.
He won Brussels in 2010.
They don't hold a 1500 at Brussels and Zurich every year.
So he does run well all through the year when healthy.
But he does not push the pace often.
In his 3:28 race, he took over the lead before the start of the last lap. That's rare for him and he needs to drive from 600-700 meters out off of an already decent pace if he really wants to run fast.
Peer Mediator wrote:
That's what happens when you have EPO and a whole bunch of personal pace makers that follow you to every elite meet and train with you for the sole purpose of running for fast times. If other top athletes from the past had the same set up, a bunch of top athletes sacrificed to one athlete's development in training and racing, then they would have run a lot faster too. Although not 3:26 flat. The set up he had in Morocco was akin to those they had in the GDR.
He never broke down with obvious injuries (I think he had piles once or twice) and he was running against other ped enhanced runners who were able to take him to 1100m in the right sort of time and push him over the last lap (e.g Lagat & Ngeny). It's just not feasibly possible to run at or close to WR times week in week out over several seasons and over several distances, naturally.
His powers of recovery were not natural. He had many team mates and training partners busted for peds. He was running in an era when times dropped across the board beyond the rate of historical progression and at a time when there was no test for EPO.
Anyone who believes that he was a natural 3:26 runner is naive. He was the dominant athlete of his generation, sure, but probably no better than a 3:29/3:30 runner clean.
pretty much this
ya it was great watching el g and everybody else going back all the years
but then when you learn that basically one generation of dopers replaced another decade after decade
you can become cycnical to the point of losing interest
But in every race Kiprop has a lap where he mentally checks out. Or he just decides to sit and kick on the outside lane. I've never seen a race where he decides to own it and run like Rudisha does in the 800M. I can't quite say that he is the Rudisha of the 1500M but he is close to it. Like Rudisha, I rarely see him breathing hard after a race. And thats after running a race nearly twice as long as the 800M.
[quote]Peer Mediator wrote:
I think you're way optimistic on his potential. He is almost a pure 1500 runner and has been involved in lots of paced races since he won the Olympic title in 2008./quote]
Kiprop has a 1:43 800, a World Junior XC gold, and a 7:42 3000m set when his 1500 PB was only like 3:35. The guy's hardly a pure 1500 runner.
Bad Wigins wrote:
Yes but he'll have to actually make an effort.
After his 3:28 last year he wasn't even winded. He is the laziest fast guy in the world.
.
Apparently, you know what his training schedule is like? What are his typical base workouts and speed workouts like?
Peer Mediator wrote:
Anyone who believes that he was a natural 3:26 runner is naive. He was the dominant athlete of his generation, sure, but probably no better than a 3:29/3:30 runner clean.
So there's an exact formula to predict the effect EPO will have on you?
* wrote:
I don't know how you can go from hanging way back in a race and kicking to going for the world record in the next race.
Records come form an attitude of constantly pushing your limits.
Kiprop rarely does this.
He needs to explore getting out of his comfort zone.
My thoughts exactly. We all know he can close faster than any other 1500 guy, as he showed just this past weekend, but i'd like to see him use some of that energy for the entire 1500 meters, not just the last 300 or 100. He reminds me of how Cain is running right now - runs just fast enough to win but never really empties his tank. I'd like to see him spent at the end of a race even if it means he doesn't have his patented kick.
ryan foreman wrote:
I can't quite say that he is the Rudisha of the 1500M but he is close to it. Like Rudisha, I rarely see him breathing hard after a race. And thats after running a race nearly twice as long as the 800M.
Many times you have shown yourself to be capable of inane offerings, but here you may have outdone yourself. The marathon is over 52 times as long as the 800, and yet one would expect to see one breathing harder just after an 800 than a marathon, and yet you imply that one is expected to be breathing harder after a 1500 than an 800? Do you even understand the sport at all?
crazy raisin wrote:
just sayin wrote:and furthermore if kiprop is clean well he's the clean wr holder
cos none of those sub 3-29 guys are clean either
http://www.alltime-athletics.com/m_1500ok.htmif there is then tell me which one?
If Kiprop is dirty then Alan Webb is the clean WR holder... tell me which one is
If you had to put your life on one person being clean under 3:30 which one would you choose?
Bad Wigins wrote:
Yes but he'll have to actually make an effort.
After his 3:28 last year he wasn't even winded. He is the laziest fast guy in the world.
If he made an "effort" he may accidentally run sub 3:00 and be busted like so many other Nike/Rosa athletes.
Ho Hum wrote:
[quote]Peer Mediator wrote:
I think you're way optimistic on his potential. He is almost a pure 1500 runner and has been involved in lots of paced races since he won the Olympic title in 2008./quote]
Kiprop has a 1:43 800, a World Junior XC gold, and a 7:42 3000m set when his 1500 PB was only like 3:35. The guy's hardly a pure 1500 runner.
Yes he is, in that he only "dabbles" in 800 to improve speed, as most milers do and have always done. The majority of his races on the circuit, about 80% are over 1500/mile. He has never entered anything but the 1500 in major championships. He isn't like Aouita say, who was mostly a 1500/5000 runner, or Coe, who was an 800/1500 runner.
Kipketer ran the occasional 400 relay and 1500, but he was still predominantly an out and out 2 lap runner. Kiprop is the same over 1500.
Well. Its not necessarily just breathing hard. Its the overall of Kiprop looking like he just took a nice stroll in the park instead of running a 1500M race. He almost looks bored at the end of some races. Not mentally or physically put out in anyway.