Best high school class of all time?!

2004 Most Depth Ever wrote:

Class of 2004 by far. A future Olympic silver medalist, not one but two future American NCAA XC champs, a total of four guys who would be untouchable in almost any other year. Then in 5th we have Ben True who just led USA to silver World XC medals with his 6th place and then ran a 13:14 this year.

The big four:

G. Rupp (2003 Pan American Jr. 10k gold, 2nd at Footlocker 2003, USATF Jr. 5k champ over Withrow and McDougal, 4:01.8 mile, 5:18.5 2k HSR, 8:03.67 3k HSR, 13:37.91 HSR/AJR, 29:09.56)

Matt Withrow (2003 Footlocker champ putting G. Rupp in 2nd place, 8:57.3 3200m (converts to about 9:00.5+ 2M), 14:13.95)

Josh McDougal (4th Footlocker 2003, 8:08.34 3k (converts to about 8:47.41+ 2M), 8:48.11 2M, 8:50.4i over G. Rupp tying Dathan Ritzenhein for 7th all time at the time, 14:07.55)

Shadrack Kiptoo (3rd at Footlocker 2003, 8:45.44 2M winning over McDougal )

Sorry, but the latter three are no names compared to Hall, Ritz, and Webb.

trello wrote:

Sorry, but the latter three are no names compared to Hall, Ritz, and Webb.

Not the 2004 versions versus the 2001 versions of them. If we're going to go by post highschool then:

1. 2004, Galen Rupp with 10k silver trumps the big three of 2001 put together.

2. 1965, Ryun 1500m silver.

3. 2007, Centro Jr with bronze WC 1500m trumps big three of 2001 also.

4. etc, etc.

Get over your Ritz, Webb, and Hall.

2004 - Galen Rupp 10k silver medalist at 2012 Olympics, Leonel Manzano 1500m silver medalist at 2012 Olympics, Ben True lead USA to team silver at World XC 2013 with 6th place.

Class of 2004: 2004 - Galen Rupp 10k silver medalist at 2012 Olympics (has set around 5 ARs now), Leonel Manzano 1500m silver medalist at 2012 Olympics, Ben True led USA to team silver at World XC 2013 with 6th place.

Honorable Mention: Garret Heath (7th at WC Indoors 2010), Mohamed Trafeh (just set 25k AR over Teg, was sub 30 at 10k in high school), Lopez Lomong (3:51.21 mile, 13:06.99i AR, 10th in 5k finals of 2012 Olympics, 1500m 2008 Olympian, 2009 and 2010 1500m USA champion), Josh McDougal (2007 NCAA XC champ over Rupp in 2nd and Lomong in 3rd, 3:57, 13:20, great collegiate career), etc.

/End Thread

2004 Most Depth Ever wrote:

trello wrote:

Sorry, but the latter three are no names compared to Hall, Ritz, and Webb.

Not the 2004 versions versus the 2001 versions of them. If we're going to go by post highschool then:

1. 2004, Galen Rupp with 10k silver trumps the big three of 2001 put together.

2. 1965, Ryun 1500m silver.

3. 2007, Centro Jr with bronze WC 1500m trumps big three of 2001 also.

4. etc, etc.

Get over your Ritz, Webb, and Hall.

Why does Rupp's silver trump the big three all put together? I think you're giving that silver medal too much weight. Maybe it beats them individually, but definitely not all put together. Especially when Rupp hasn't run anything close to those times.

mdmd wrote:

Why does Rupp's silver trump the big three all put together? I think you're giving that silver medal too much weight. Maybe it beats them individually, but definitely not all put together. Especially when Rupp hasn't run anything close to those times.

Rupp 3:50i, 12:58, 60:30 for half those aren't far off from Webb's mile, Ritz's 5k, or Hall's half. Close freaking enough. Medal > American record(s) anyway. The class of 2001 was important in helping pave the way for 2004, but the class of 2004 is content in just setting ARs, "being good for Americans."

2004 Most Depth Ever wrote:

but the class of 2004 is content in just setting ARs, "being good for Americans."

make that "isn't content in just setting ARs"

2004 Most Depth Ever wrote:

mdmd wrote:

Why does Rupp's silver trump the big three all put together? I think you're giving that silver medal too much weight. Maybe it beats them individually, but definitely not all put together. Especially when Rupp hasn't run anything close to those times.

Rupp 3:50i, 12:58, 60:30 for half those aren't far off from Webb's mile, Ritz's 5k, or Hall's half. Close freaking enough. Medal > American record(s) anyway. The class of 2001 was important in helping pave the way for 2004, but the class of 2004 is content in just setting ARs, "being good for Americans."

3:50 is a long way from 3:46. And 3:46 isn't just good for Americans. It's 3 seconds off the world record. Medals aren't automatically greater than American records. Especially when the medal was won against weakened competition.

mdmd wrote:

3:50 is a long way from 3:46. And 3:46 isn't just good for Americans. It's 3 seconds off the world record. Medals aren't automatically greater than American records. Especially when the medal was won against weakened competition.

Rupp's 3:50.92 PR is closer to 3:46.91 AR than 3:46.91 is to the 3:43.13 WR, those 3.78 secs between the AR and WR might as well be +12 secs because what it requires to bridge the gap compared to the 4.01 gap between Rupp's PR (in indoor season by a 10k specialist) and the AR. And yes, Olympic/WC medal always > than AR, with possible exception if the AR is also an WR.

Rupp (still PRing, setting record, and in hunt for medals) > Webb (looks done) + Hall (looks done) + Ritz (unless Ritz finishes his career well)

And, that's just Rupp vs all 3. 2004 vs 2001 isn't even a contest.

2004 Most Depth Ever wrote:

mdmd wrote:

3:50 is a long way from 3:46. And 3:46 isn't just good for Americans. It's 3 seconds off the world record. Medals aren't automatically greater than American records. Especially when the medal was won against weakened competition.

Rupp's 3:50.92 PR is closer to 3:46.91 AR than 3:46.91 is to the 3:43.13 WR, those 3.78 secs between the AR and WR might as well be +12 secs because what it requires to bridge the gap compared to the 4.01 gap between Rupp's PR (in indoor season by a 10k specialist) and the AR. And yes, Olympic/WC medal always > than AR, with possible exception if the AR is also an WR.

Rupp (still PRing, setting record, and in hunt for medals) > Webb (looks done) + Hall (looks done) + Ritz (unless Ritz finishes his career well)

And, that's just Rupp vs all 3. 2004 vs 2001 isn't even a contest.

Where did that 12 seconds come from? Can you reexplain that?

And no, medals are not always better than records. Rupp's 10k medal was soft. Webb's record surpassed better runners.

mdmd wrote:

And no, medals are not always better than records.

...

Webb's record surpassed better runners.

You admit that "better runners" have slower PRs. Better runners care more about RACING, especially their championship performances than running great PRs in the middle of nowhere when it doesn't matter. That's what makes them "better runners." Nick Willis and Leo Manzano go home and shine their silver medals, they wouldn't trade them for the AR as a PR.

mdmd wrote:Rupp's 10k medal was soft.

Right, because if a 3:50i/26:48 guy wins a 10k medal (there's what 3 or 4 other people in all of track history with that range, all of them legends), beating the two Bekele brothers, and he's WHITE, that PROVES it was a soft field. Not buying it.

2004 Most Depth Ever wrote:

mdmd wrote:

And no, medals are not always better than records.

...

Webb's record surpassed better runners.

You admit that "better runners" have slower PRs. Better runners care more about RACING, especially their championship performances than running great PRs in the middle of nowhere when it doesn't matter. That's what makes them "better runners." Nick Willis and Leo Manzano go home and shine their silver medals, they wouldn't trade them for the AR as a PR.

mdmd wrote:Rupp's 10k medal was soft.

Right, because if a 3:50i/26:48 guy wins a 10k medal (there's what 3 or 4 other people in all of track history with that range, all of them legends), beating the two Bekele brothers, and he's WHITE, that PROVES it was a soft field. Not buying it.

A medal isn't the only thing that matters in running. A world record is just as significant. So, no, ignoring records does not make you a better runner. Webb is 3 seconds off the WORLD RECORD. That is better than Rupp's 10k ability. Yes, real great runners do care about records too. That's why they set world records.

Rupp's range is good but it's not as rare as you make it sound. It's rarity is more because greater runners have not attempted those other events. Being white is irrelevant. And beating the Bekeles is misleading. He beat a bunch of injured and out of shape Africans.... unless you believe Rupp is in 26:17 shape.

mdmd wrote:

A medal isn't the only thing that matters in running. A world record is just as significant. So, no, ignoring records does not make you a better runner. Webb is 3 seconds off the WORLD RECORD. That is better than Rupp's 10k ability.

No it isn't. Man runs WR, gets beaten at Olympics by one, two, or even three or more guys with times in about same range as him, then that WR is almost worthless. And you keep going back to WRs, when we're talking about a mere AR, an AR that 3.78 secs is off the WR in the mile. Now, the 10k is 6.214 miles, so 3.78s times 6.214 = 23.49 secs, so lets add 23.49 secs to 26:17.35 and then results in: 26:40.84 which well, well, is pretty close to Rupp's AR (which will probably be coming down farther). I guess Rupp's AR is almost as amazing to you now as Webb's, but guess what, G. Rupp has like 4 other ARs and I think more USA championships than your 2001 Big Three Together... And then there's the Olympic silver of course.

AP World History is the best.

At the top wrote:

If you mean quality, 2001 by a mile. The big 3 set ARs in mile, 2 mile, 5k, half marathon and marathon.

Nobody from that class set an AR in the marathon.

10k MAN wrote:

AP World History is the best.

For me it was a toss-up between AP Modern European History during the breakup of the Soviet Union and Search for Meaning.

Class of 2004:

Galen Rupp 10k silver medalist at 2012 Olympics (has set around 5 ARs now), Leonel Manzano 1500m silver medalist (1:44.56, 3:32.37, 3:50.64) at 2012 Olympics.

Team Silver XC Medal: Ben True (5th at 2003 Footlocker, 13:14/27:41) led USA to team silver at World XC 2013 with 6th place, Ryan Vail (27:52/2:11:45) was 16th and America's 3rd finisher, James Strang (16th at 2003 Footlocker, 28:12) was America's 6th runner (and 2nd non scorer, first 4 score).

Honorable Mention: Garret Heath (7th at WC Indoors 2010), Mohamed Trafeh (just set 25k AR over Teg, was sub 30 at 10k in high school), Lopez Lomong (3:51.21 mile, 13:06.99i AR, 10th in 5k finals of 2012 Olympics, 1500m 2008 Olympian, 2009 and 2010 1500m USA champion), Josh McDougal (2007 NCAA XC champ over Rupp in 2nd and Lomong in 3rd, 3:57, 13:20, great collegiate career), etc.

2004 Most Depth Ever wrote:

1990 3 Bryan Dameworth 8:56.4 +

1991 1 David Gurry 8:59.3+

1992 1 Angel Martinez 8:59.5

1993 0 Webb Shelley 9:03.8 +

1994 2 Meb Keflezighi 8:54.9 +

1995 0 Micah Davis 9:01.5 +

1996 0 Marius Bakken 9:00.7 +

1997 3 Ryan Andrus 8:58.

1998 1 Andy Powell 8:59.2 i

Wow... Never realized how embarrassing the 90s were.

On high school vs high school (not post high school success), this is a hard class to top.:

http://www.runningentertainment.com/runningshots19b.html

Distance: 8k (World Jr. XC with barriers and water hazard)

1) E. Hulst (USA) .............23:53.8 (4:48 mile pace!!)

2) T. Hunt (USA) ..............24:06.8 (4:51 mile pace!!)

3) N. Muir (Scot)...............24:17

4) T. Watrice (Fra).............24:23

5) A. Salazar (USA) ..........24:36

8) D. Moses (USA)...........24:43

11) M. Froelick (USA)......24:47

19) R. Serna(USA) ...........25:02 (5:02 mile pace!!)

81 finishers representing 14 Countries.

Add in Rudy Chapa with 28:32 10k, etc.