JK is brilliant

Setting aside the fact that his training advice is probably pretty good, doesn't it bother anyone that he's just making up these explanations? Is it even logical? Faster running leads to reduced economy due to acidosis, so that only slow training produces the relaxation necessary to promote improved running economy? But then long runs produce recruitment of fast twitch fibers? Shouldn't long runs then be counterproductive since they will induce acidosis and inhibit relaxation and ultimately make you less economical? And I don't even know what muscle cell stress overload means.

Wild hare wrote:

Shouldn't long runs then be counterproductive since they will induce acidosis and inhibit relaxation and ultimately make you less economical? And I don't even know what muscle cell stress overload means.

You'd better sit in on a beginning physiology class. Long runs are aerobic in nature not anaerobic.

I ran into a local Kenyan runner here (Chicago), and started chatting with him. I asked him what he thought i should do to get better. His answer, long run, just go out for 8 or 10 miles and run harder as you go, 800 meter repeats with 2:00 rest on the track,take Sundays off and race now and then to get in race shape.

Kellogg and others make it very confusing at times. Forget the reasoning and just run. That Kenyans advise was the best i ever have been given or seen.

././. wrote:

I ran into a local Kenyan runner here (Chicago), and started chatting with him. I asked him what he thought i should do to get better. His answer, long run, just go out for 8 or 10 miles and run harder as you go, 800 meter repeats with 2:00 rest on the track,take Sundays off and race now and then to get in race shape.

Kellogg and others make it very confusing at times. Forget the reasoning and just run. That Kenyans advise was the best i ever have been given or seen.

Kenyans have long been known to say to Americans what they want to hear.

and if someone doesnt give the recovery he needs he also will not be the best runner he can be, and if someone doesnt work a lot on his running economy he also will not be the best runner he can be, and if someone doesnt work on his vo2max he also will not be the best runner he can be..

there are more factors than just volume and at some point you have to make sacrifices or your body will break down.

Its the one who trains the most efficient way not the one who trains the most or the hardest.

Yeah, I know a bit of physiology. The point is not what I think or know, it is how a chain of logic is connected between the various assertions in that article. The article states that in longer runs FT fibers are recruited. It introduces this idea in support of the notion that you can get adaptations in fibers normally used in faster training without running fast. My question was then why this would promote the development of efficient or economic running if faster paced running supposedly wouldn't due to the recruitment of these faster fibers. Comprehend?

If you have muscle fiber recruitment, regardless of FT or SL, the total energy expended at Velocity V will be less, ergo, more efficiency.

wello wrote:

and if someone doesnt give the recovery he needs he also will not be the best runner he can be, and if someone doesnt work a lot on his running economy he also will not be the best runner he can be, and if someone doesnt work on his vo2max he also will not be the best runner he can be..

there are more factors than just volume and at some point you have to make sacrifices or your body will break down.

Its the one who trains the most efficient way not the one who trains the most or the hardest.

Wello,

It's clear from your numerous posts on this topic that you clearly don't understand JK's training. Far too often people think he is all about mileage and all about running easy.

I have copied down everything from his former website and if youd like an 80 page document on his training, email me and I'll send it to you. Either that or enroll at Cornell and you can learn to train properly. Quite honestly, we started the website to spread his gospel but i don't want to get all the specifics out there otherwise people would just copy my shit and beat my teams.

It's not just about the mileage. We have a vo2 max part of every season, followed up by hard intervals. That's the easy part. Any idiot can get someone to run hard. What John says is that by getting the biggest base possible, the hard stuff will be all the more effective. You can always add that crap on after getting a base.

As for mileage, you don't want to go out and run 120-150 all the time. You want to PROGRESS in your training from year to year. To me that means add, 10-15 miles per week.

Everyone in the country could do the following. It's my 10 mile (or minute) rule to success.

9th-30 minutes or miles per week.

10th-40

11th-50

12-60

college fresh-70

soph-80

jr-90

sr-100.

But then again, you have to listen to your body. Some may not have it mentally to go above 80, etc.

The miles per week also is a misnomer as that's during the base period. During outdoor track, I could give a **** about how muc mileage my guys are running. They, like you, sometimes misinterpret what John advocates. They work so much on getting a huge base that they want to keep up the mileageall the time.

The point of running isn't to run a lot to have a sweet training lot. It's to run fast.

John would be thrilled if you could get aerobically fit as possible on 10 miles per week. It's just not possible.

But at the end of the season, the mileage is irrelevant. It's all about quality and recovery.

It's not just about mileage. Mileage is in the summer and winter. Mileage is for the future. The workouts are for the presnt.

But when I first started working with Bruce Hyde, after a summer of repeatedly doing 150-200 meteter buildups, he said something that was pretty eyeopening.

He's like, you could just as easily tell someone this is an "interval based speed training" philosophy if I actually did those on the track all the time. I was like, yep, it's what you interpret as being important.

The average runner doens't have much of a base. The hammer a bunch of workouts and get in decent shape and think - oh it's the workouts. But it's not. The workouts are the easy part. If they ran year round, they shouldn't do those hard workout all the time. Only at teh end of the season. That's where 99.9% person of the idiots out there go wrong.

So john emphasizes the mileage as it's the missing ingredietn. Can you get damn good on running 60 mpw of all quality? YES. Can you reach your potential? NO.

Are there risks to running more? Yes.

But if you think John is all about volume, you are crazy.

2 Things happen consistently with John's training:

1) People improve each year

2) they peak when it counts.

The beauty of his system is it's vrey very easy for me to peak guys out when it matters most and I think most coaches do an awful awful job at this.

His training is PROGRESSIVE, PERIODIZED AEROBIC.

Each word is key.

Aerobic - obviously the empahsis on tempos, threshold, progression and mileage.

Progressive - the best part of his training is that if you're dedicated it's very REPEATABLE so from year to year you can do a little more and run faster. If you're hammering 5 workouts a week and running 545 pace on your easy days, you might catch lightning in a bottle and have a huge year but how are you going to top that in year 2? You're not.

Periodized- Peaking when it counts. Mileage (but not just slow mileage), vo2max, hard anaerobic.

-Rojo

Yes, JK is a bit dogmatic but the article was still entertaining.

One thing too is the mention of less impact slower running. Yes, its lower impact per step, but multiply that times all the EXTRA steps and you wear down and get injured. Look at the steady, gentle stress of the ocean wearing away a rock, or the wind doing the same.

My main contention with the Lydiard "limitless" potential etc. etc. is that it is false.

Look at the high injury rates of the Colorado runners doing "aerobic" base build.

Look at Wejo, injuries surely played a role in him not fullfilling his potential. Who knows how fast he could have gone if healthy? We will never know. Yes, he improved a ton, very quickly (few years) but then injuries and essential stagnation.

No magic bullets in this sport. But just beware, most coaches conveniently leave out the injury riddled mess associated with the "gentle" and "limitless" mileage when praising mileage.

yeah please mail me the stuff

and dont get me wrong, I#m not the anti-jk/high mileage man, i agree with a lot of the stuff he write but i totally disagree with the more volume for more endurance thing.

This approach will get you next to nowhere. In fact, here is what JK once posted about the "go out and run" approach:

"And welcome to the 21st century.

Look, nobody who knows anything is suggesting that we abandon the proven principles that brought Boston Billy and his peers so much success. We *know* that those principles include lots and lots of miles (with a suitable portion of those miles being *fast* ones).

That said, taking the "just go out and run" approach is similar to a baseball manager or pitching coach telling the guy on the mound to "just mix up your pitches and get all the hitters out". Naturally the pitcher would want to develop the basic physical skills necessary to have an effective repertoire of pitches, but don't you think better use could be made of that repertoire if the manager, coaches, and players knew the tendencies of the hitters they were about to face and applied that knowledge? Maybe the guy at bat tends to have trouble with high, tight fastballs. Maybe the next guy in the lineup tends to chase breaking balls low and away. How do you select your pitches or position your fielders if there are runners on first and third, the batter's a lefty, there's one out, your opponents like to use the hit-and-run, a power hitter with 10 homers in his last 4 games is on deck, blah-blah-blah? Sure, you could choose to ignore the finer points of the game, citing the fact that the 1927 Yankees just "went out and played ball" without going overboard with all that silly "batter tendencies" nonsense. Meanwhile, a rival team with equal physical talent and determination might choose to *study* their opponents and play the odds and, while the outcome of any individual at-bat would not be predictable, that rival team would patiently and methodically rise to the top of the heap over the course of a full season of play.

Whether you want to accept it or not, there are advantages to understanding how and why the body responds to different stimuli (altitude, training procedures, etc.). It *is* possible to integrate this understanding into our training and fine-tune it *without* having to abandon the tried-and-true principles that runners like Bill Rodgers used to become great. Don't be daunted by science. It *can* go hand-in-hand with experience.

"

There is very little confusing about it. Learn some basic physiology. Is the phrase "lactate threshold" confusing to you?

RECOVERY: A great deal of the mileage JK advocates is easy RECOVERY running. Read his old posts and the article he wrote today. Further, slow easy running allows you to achieve lactate values LOWER than those naturally available such as when sitting in a chair, so the easy running has great regenerative value.

ECONOMY: Another reason for volume. You cannot and will not become efficient and economical if you do not PRACTICE the simple act of placing one foot in front of another. This in concert with the regular alactic speed maintenance JK advises will greatly enhance your economy.

VO2 MAX: Again, high mileage is part of the way to improve this, along with short offseason time trials to preserve stroke volume and left ventricle strength and inseason work at 95-105% of vVO2 max (all of this is JK's stuff).

No is saying to run 200 miles a week and break down.

If YOU personally cannot make it past x miles, do not go past that number. The HIGHEST priority is STAYING HEALTHY.

Maybe you will run slower off 75 mpw than off 120 mpw, but you will run slower still if you are resigned to the pool because you cannot run at all!

I'd like a copy of JK's writing as well, Rojo, if you please.

wello wrote:

and dont get me wrong, I#m not the anti-jk/high mileage man, i agree with a lot of the stuff he write but i totally disagree with the more volume for more endurance thing.

I copied his stuff too from paragonrunning.com and the boards, Rojo is correct. JK is a genius.

And of COURSE more volume=more endurance. Endurance, depending on how you define it, can be broken down to aerobic strength. How else can you build endurance if you do not have volume?

One thing not in the paragonrunning document which gives a VERY clear snapshot of JK's periodization and SHOOTS DOWN the myth that he is "all high mileage" is the training guide he posted on the old board:

"Wasting bandwidth - a general career training outline

Here are the fundamentals of our training approach. We use this same basic outline throughout an ENTIRE CAREER from about age 15 forward, with mileages steadily increasing toward the maximum as a runner demonstrates the ability to tolerate the load and benefit from it (this is BASIC training). We aim for two peaks per year. This policy is more conducive to long term development than is trying to peak three times in a year, as is often done in college (and sometimes in high school). We don't ALWAYS follow a 7-day pattern, either, but since most runners are often constrained by external demands (school, etc.), it's useful to acquire the ability to function well within a 7-day schedule. This is used for ALL track events from 1,500m through 10,000m, with adjustments made along the way as a runner shows a tendency to improve from a particular balance of workout types (this is the ART of training). Just as Lydiard's elite runners trained on the same basic plan until it was the time of the year for them to move toward their specialties, the aim of EVERY runner who races at middle and long distances should be to acquire a high level of aerobic fitness and to handle steadily increasing training loads (read: mileage).

We set the paces for timed workouts based on recent time trials or races (also depends on if there is an important race within a few days or whether the week's mileage is planned as high or low, etc.). In any case, we'll almost ALWAYS start SLOWER than the intended average and work into a speed which keeps lactate levels under complete control until the final 2-3 minutes of running. The PACE may be FASTER than the "laboratory GXT definition" of LT pace as "approximately one hour race pace", but the lactate levels THEMSELVES are what we are concerned with, NOT necessarily the PACE. For example, a runner who is in CURRENT shape for a 15:00 for 5,000m may have a theoretical LT pace of 5:15-5:20 per mile and might on one day perform 10 x 3 min. on/30-60 secs. off (so-called "high density") at an average of 5:15 mile pace for the 3 min. runs. Then on a DIFFERENT threshold workout, the same runner might do 3 x 8 min. on/5 min. off (lower density) at an average pace of 4:55 per mile (covering roughly 6.5 laps in each 8 min. bout if done on a track). Or the workout might consist of 20 x 400 in around 75, with 20-25 secs. rest periods - another high density session but run at a different pace than the first high density session. The point is to work at VARIOUS speeds but to stay on the comfortable side of tying up, only feeling like you're really "ripping it" during the last 2-3 minutes of the entire workout - and even THEN not rigging, but getting a "fast flying" feeling - working but not straining. You must train your body to operate under CONTROL while recruiting different muscle fibers, with various ranges of motion, and at different power outputs, thereby stimulating some systems while recovering others. High density repeats use predominantly slow twitch fibers and can be repeated fairly often in lieu of continuous runs. Lower density repeats allow you to spend significant time at or below your LT while running FASTER and are complementary to the high density sessions.

4-8 WEEKS EARLY PRESEASON:

This phase is loosely structured, with the emphasis on rebuilding mileage and on running by feel while covering some of the necessary bases.

2-4 days per week - Progression runs (no pace parameters yet - start slow, gradually and spontaneously increase speed to the high end of aerobic effort and stay there from 30-65 min., with a faster finish if feeling strong)

1-2 days per week - Sets of buildups or strides (ex.: 2-3 sets of 5-6 x 15-40 secs., jogging equal distance between reps and jogging 5-10 min. between sets - always do buildups, strides, and drills WITH the wind, if any) + drills and/or hills on occasion + 2-8 min. @ 90% effort (following last set of strides) every 2 weeks

1 day every 2 weeks - Long easy run (getting longer each time, last 1-3 miles gradually faster if feeling good)

Phase in doubles 1-2 times per week for 2 weeks, 3-4 times per week for 2 weeks, 4-6 times per week after that

4 WEEKS LATE PRESEASON:

Here we get more structured toward Mondays and Wednesdays being faster days and Saturdays being long run days (schedule shifted if needed based on whenever the long run is most convenient). The basic outline below totals 65-80 miles for a week at MINIMUM (depending on average training pace) and totals 125-150 miles at MAXIMUM (depending on pace).

Sun. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy ("shake-out" or "super-O2" pace) / P.M. 30-95 min. easy (normal comfortable pace)

Mon. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Progression run (spending 30-65 min. at a high end of aerobic effort) OR Tempo run with 20-25 min at LT effort OR High Density LT repeats (ex.: 8-15 x 3-4 min with 30-60 secs. rest periods)

Tue. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Wed. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Progression run (spending 30-65 min. at a high end of aerobic effort) OR High Density LT repeats (ex.: 15-25 x 60-90 secs. with 20-25 secs. rest periods) OR Sets of strides OR Lower Density short LT repeats (ex.: 12-20 x 45-90 secs. at roughly current controlled 3,000m Time Trial pace with nearly equal rest-to-run ratios)

Thu. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Fri. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy with 4-10 strides near the end

Sat. 125-155 min. easy with last 10-20 min. gradually faster if feeling good OR 95-125 min. with last 30-60 min. picked up to a strong high-end pace OR A.M. 30-35 min. very easy / P.M. Long warmup (25-35 min.), CONTROLLED (deliberately slow start) Time Trial of 3,000m-8,000m - designed to determine critical training speeds and make adjustments (60-65 min. total)

4 WEEKS EARLY COMPETITIVE SEASON (assuming Saturday RACE):

From this point on, runners who specialize at 1,500m will gradually gravitate toward the lower (or moderate) outlined mileage levels and will place slightly less emphasis on threshold work, favoring repeats more often than continuous runs and moving toward Lactate Tolerance training slightly sooner than the longer distance runners. Races during the early season are usually overdistance for 1,500m-3,000m runners, underdistance for 5,000m-10,000 runners (unless a time is needed as a qualifier).

Sun. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 30-95 min. easy (normal comfortable pace)

Mon. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Progression run (spending 30-65 min. at a high end of aerobic effort) OR Tempo run with 20-30 min at LT effort OR High Density LT repeats (ex.: 8-15 x 3-4 min with 30-60 secs. rest periods or 15-25 x 60-90 secs. with 20-25 secs. rest periods) OR Sets of strides (if long RACE previous Saturday)

Tue. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Wed. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Lower Density short LT repeats (ex.: 12-20 x 45-90 secs. at roughly current 5,000m race pace with nearly equal rest-to-run ratios) OR VO2max training (ex.: 6-8 x 2-3 min. at slightly slower than current 3,000m race pace)

Thu. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Fri. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy with 4-10 strides near the end

Sat. 95-125 min. with last 30-60 min. picked up to a strong high-end pace OR (rarely) 125-155 min. easy with last 10-20 min. gradually faster if feeling good OR RACE of 3,000m-5,000m (10,000m only if needed for qualifier)

4 WEEKS MID-SEASON (assuming Saturday RACE):

The 1,500m runners still spend more time on the faster workouts than longer distance runners, occasionally staying in touch with their LT training. Races are usually underdistance or specialty distance for all runners (unless a time is needed as a qualifier).

Sun. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 30-95 min. easy (normal comfortable pace)

Mon. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Sets of strides OR Tempo run with 20-30 min at LT effort OR High Density LT repeats (ex.: 8-15 x 3-4 min with 30-60 secs. rest periods or 15-25 x 60-90 secs. with 20-25 secs. rest periods) OR Lower Density long LT repeats (ex.: 4-5 x 4-5 min. at roughly current 5,000m race pace with 3-4 min. rest periods or 3 x 8 min. at roughly 10 secs./mile slower than current 5,000m race pace with 3-5 min. rest periods)

Tue. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Wed. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Lower Density short LT repeats (ex.: 12-20 x 45-90 secs. at roughly current 5,000m race pace with nearly equal rest-to-run ratios) OR VO2max training (ex.: 6-10 x 2-3 min. at slightly slower than current 3,000m race pace with equal rest-to-run ratios) OR Creatine Phosphate training (ex.: 2 sets of 2-3 x 7-10 secs. @ 98%-100% effort with 60 secs. walk between each and 8 min. walk between sets) OR Lactate Tolerance training (ex.: 8-10 x 45-65 secs. at slightly faster than current 1,500m/mile race pace with rest periods of about 1.5 times the run periods) OR Lactate Clearance training (ex.: 2-3 x 30-40 secs. at 95%-100% effort with 3-4 min. rest periods)

Thu. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Fri. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy with 4-10 strides near the end

Sat. RACE of 800m-1,500m (1,500m-5,000m specialists) or 1,500m-5,000m (10,000m specialists) OR 95-125 min. with last 10-20 min. gradually faster if feeling good

4 WEEKS LATE SEASON (assuming Saturday RACE):

Time to peak out. Lactate Clearance training is often done by all runners during this stage (if there are not too many races scheduled during the season), but only if regular speed maintenance (buildups and strides) and some Creatine Phosphate training has been used first.

Sun. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 30-65 min. easy (normal comfortable pace)

Mon. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Sets of strides OR High Density LT repeats (ex.: 3-4 min. reps with 30-60 secs. rest periods) OR Creatine Phosphate training (ex.: 3-4 x 20 secs. @ 98%-100% effort with 60 secs. walk between each)

Tue. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy

Wed. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. VO2max training (ex.: 6-10 x 2-3 min. at slightly slower than current 3,000m race pace with equal rest-to-run ratios or 12-15 x 1 min. at slightly faster than current 3,000m race pace with nearly equal rest-to-run ratios) OR Lactate Tolerance training (ex.: 8-10 x 45-65 secs. at slightly faster than current 1,500m/mile race pace with rest periods of about 1.5 times the run periods) OR Lactate Clearance training (ex.: 2-3 x 1 min. at 95%-100% effort with 4-5 min. rest periods) OR Taper Session (ex.: 2 x 2 min. + 2 x 1 min. + 4 x 30 secs., each set of 2 having first rep medium speed and second rep fast with rest periods of about 1.5 times the previous run periods and the set of 4 all starting at medium speed and getting progressively faster)

Thu. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy

Fri. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy with 4-10 strides near the end

Sat. RACE of 400m-1,500m (1,500m specialists) or 800m-5,000m (5,000m specialists) or 1,500m-10,000m (10,000m specialists) OR 95-125 min. with last 10-20 min. gradually faster if feeling good

Oh, yes, don't forget the most important criterion of all: LOVE running!

"

Also, Rojo, I do not think you need to worry about people copying the stuff and beating your team. Certainly they would get good if they did what JK advocates, but one really needs a coach like yourself or JK or Heffner to properly explain exactly HOW to run at threshold pace or the goal of a specific workout.

Without this, most people on this message boards would exercise customary poor judgment and hammer "easy runs" at 6:00 pace and get injured and accuse the program rather than their own stupidity.

yes, recovery running is good but i dont recover on 15miles a day even if i run it really slow, i recover and progress much better when i dont run more than 4-5m at one time on my easy days so my mileage cant get nowhere near 120miles.

Drills,sprints,weights,hills are much more effective for improving running economy.

lets take two 30:00-10k guys, guy a is running 60mpw@5:40/mile and guy b 80@7:00 and lets say both are recovering equal from training- guy a produces a lot more aerobic stress=better endurance.

And also some training outside the box(aerobic) can improve endurance, 3k-10k pace stuff that almost every top world class runner from 1500m to the marathon frequently does.

I mean do they all train wrong?

I recently have seen a trainings-shedule of Stefano Baldini who is one of the best marathoners these days he does very high-quality training and not big volume, is he so wrong?

running 2:07 and winning medals when is doing so wrong?

Khannouchi does 2-track sessions of 400s and 1000s per wekk and runs maximum 120miles per week and averages in the 100s and runs 2:05 and breaks world-records, he cant be so successfull doing so much wrong.

Bob Kennedy did maximum 100mile/weeks but hard long intervals before running 12:58, was he training so wrong and still doing the great?

Everyone is different. Principles such as progressive overload, consistency, indivdualization, and moderation play into the mix.

I think it is ridiculous to state that all runners need to put in 120-140 miles per week to be successful. If you increase the workload and your body responds, great. If it doesn't respond positively, then back off. Each person is an experiment of one.

"We" want quick results and solid answers to questions that filter through our consciousness. There are no shortcuts. There are no magic foods. There is only consistent work that builds your fitness.

Gather ideas from others, sure, but don't believe everything you read and hear as 100% true for you. A good coach can get you to 90% of what you are capable of, so the rest is up to you. Accept that fact early on and you'll be better for it in the long haul.

Comittment, one of the best traits of runners' becomes their nemesis because all to often it morphs to obsessive complulsion. Do a check up from the neck up, Ziz Ziglar would tell us.

Be reasonable about things and let your talent develop. Start earlier than you think is needed. It often takes many days, weeks, and months longer to hit your goals than you first imagine. One of the very reasons that people don't hit their potential is their disregard for how much time and energy must go into becoming good at something. Few people can pick up an instrument and make it hum with classical music at first or second try. A runner is an instrument too and it takes a lot of practice to make the human body "sing." Tinman

But why do you paint the picture as though I said quality is not the way to go.

Of necessity you must do quality; all those people you cited do quality ON TOP OF their base.

Kennedy ran 10 years of 100+ miles a week. Khannounchi likewise coming from an active childhood in Morocco.

The other point to be made; as JK said, a talented athlete can often get my on less and still achieve great results.

Paavo Nurmi and Emil Zatopek were great champions. But I can all but guarantee you that they UNDERACHIEVED in their potential.

Maybe even Kennedy UNDERACHIEVED. He never even went to altitude up until this year; he was the only non-altitude athlete to break 13:00. He said in 1994 (when Aouita had the WR at 12:58.39) that he was on a 2 year plan to break the WR. 2 years later in Zurich, he broke what was the WR with 12:58.21. But now he was 14 seconds behing Gebrselassie. He underachieved, great as he was.

You can't talk to cult followers.