High School Relay Team DQ'd for POINTING AT SKY

We were DQed from a SMR in HS after our last guy dropped the baton after crossing the line. Actually he turned sideways and dropped in the grass. DQ. Was he supposed to carry it home? I'm still bitter about it 20y later, so yeah, the power hungry fools should be reigned in.

Yes, obvious showboating should be dealt with.

It is fairly obvious when someone is celebrating excessively and/ or offensively. The rule is meant for the very few people who go out of their way to be offensive and unsportsmanlike to others, not to DQ someone who points upwards. One of the biggest reason i love track is because it is a totally objective sport. No one can take anything away from you. If Centrowitz was DQ'd for the throat slit gesture he would still know he was the NCAA champion that day, no official can take your wins or PR's away from you. Hell he could have whipped it out and had at it after the finish line, but he would always be the NCAA champ no matter what. That is something that some coaches, athletes, and especially officials can have a hard time understanding.

The only time someone should be DQ is when they cheat or affect a competitors race negatively. "Excessive celebration" should have some warnings and then suspension from affiliated meets after X amount of infractions. Athletes shouldn't be DQ for being happy or overly excited. If they did that in the NFL my boy Gronk would've had all twenty or w/e TD's taken away 2 seasons ago.

coach d wrote:

This case was not in anyone's face, apparently. It was a religious celebration.

The decision to DQ them was correct.

What if they had yelled out "I love Satan!" "I love Satan!"?

The hypocrite defenders would say they should be DQ'd, and it's exactly the same thing.

Just stupid.

Taunting or excessive celebration is one thing. Raising hands, pointing at the sky, etc. is completely harmless and not "unsportsmanlike". This kind of crap just hurts the sport and makes something that should be a positive thing into a negative thing.

Are Catholic High Schools exempt from the Finger of God rule?

They knew the rules, and often, the starter will tell them ahead of time. It is in the rulebook, so it is a legal DQ. If they hadn't been the winning team and gotten DQed, I am sure no one would have complained at all. Sometimes you just have to follow the rules. And if you don't like them, get involved in the high school association and get them changed.

Most shocking item to me in the whole story:

White guy anchoring a relay team with three black guys. Is he the fastest, or is the idea to give him a big lead to hold at the end?

coachgirl wrote:

They knew the rules, and often, the starter will tell them ahead of time. It is in the rulebook, so it is a legal DQ. If they hadn't been the winning team and gotten DQed, I am sure no one would have complained at all. Sometimes you just have to follow the rules. And if you don't like them, get involved in the high school association and get them changed.

Is this parsed out in the rule book? In other words, are examples such as fist pumps, fingers to the sky, thumbs up, and smiling, or putting hands together in a prayer motion suggested as "excessive celebration"? If so, then what in that list constitutes an "acceptable celebration"?

If not, then to simply leave it at "excessive celebration" leaves the rule wide open to the arbitrary interpretation of the officials. As in any sport, the officials are there to protect the integrity of the competition, not to steal a victory from the clear winners of the race.

People joining the high school association will NOT help the young guys who deserved this win get that moment back. It's gone forever, and in my opinion the officials should be ashamed.

As a high school coach let me say a few things. First, I have never heard an official before shooting the gun and giving the rules say anything about excessive celebration. At no coaches meeting have I ever heard of anyone say anything about excessive celebration. They harp on and on about necklaces and earrings and stuff but that is another argument all in itself.

Secondly, I have never even spoken to my team about this. Before meets when we get off the bus I tell them to make sure that they have the same uniform, no jewelry, and their undergarments match if they are on the same relay. Never have I ever thought about excessive celebration.

Thirdly, in what world even if he raises his hand with a one is that excessive celebration. I have seen kids celebrate at the end of a race and they weren't on my team and in no way was I offended in actuality I was happy for them because it showed some of the emotion of the work that they had put into it all. Take the emotions out of sports and you have the NBA and NFL. Personally I'd much rather watch college.

Finally, unless someone is taunting or threatening or something what does it really matter?

onlooker123456789 wrote:

unless someone is taunting or threatening or something what does it really matter?

They were taunting by pointing their fingers to the sky.

rewind wrote:

By the way, see this article on Texas school districts going out of their way on multiple levels to circumvent the US Supreme Court ruling on organized prayer, here students leading the crowd before high school football games, citing a Texas law passed in 2007 that allows a "limited public forum" for public school students. Seems like this instance could fall under that law, if they allow prayer before games.

Texas is a schizophrenic state, with school district control and religion at odds under certain circumstances that they just didn't think of at the time they instituted their policies.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Despite-Legal-Issues-Prayers-Before-Football-Games-177055321.html

Amazing to think that Engel v. Vitale is more than half a century old, and people are still breaking the law...

strhtr wrote:

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Despite-Legal-Issues-Prayers-Before-Football-Games-177055321.html

Amazing to think that Engel v. Vitale is more than half a century old, and people are still breaking the law...

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According to the UIL, Texas' supervising body regarding public school athletics, the decision to disqualify the team rests squarely on the shoulders of the hired official.

According to the UIL Deputy Director Jamey Harrison,

"There is no national federation rule that has anything against a sign of religious expression nor does the UIL have any such rule... this was a judgment call by a meet referee who made the decision in his opinion that this was an unsporting act," .

In other words, this particular incident on the track, has NOTHING to do with violating a Texas rule or law regarding religious expression. Again, this was an arbitrary ruling by the official, and it centers on "excessive celebration".

As an aside regarding the perceived religious expression: I could care less if the athlete fell to the ground in Salah like Mo Farah does at the end of many races. If Mo can do this without penalty for celebration at international events in the middle of the track, then this kid should be able to point at the sky after he crosses the line at a regional high school meet without penalizing his entire team:

They would absolutely for sure disqualify Usain Bolt.

That's why you do the Centro throat slash!!

It's not a celebration it is acknowledging you slaughtered the competition!

shiny metal monster wrote:

That's why you do the Centro throat slash!!

It's not a celebration it is acknowledging you slaughtered the competition!

Damn...and all this time I've been doing the Webb Constipation Yell after every race:

Time to step my game up.

Would this rule survive in high school basketball? Ridiculous.

I read through this thread and a few others and I see why there are so many attorneys in the USA. It appears very very people are able to read a situation and find the central issue at hand. Everyone start going off on weird sideways arguments.

Maybe we need to make debate a mandatory class.

You kidding? I have never once been warned by a starter not to celebrate "excessively."

I want there to be disqualifications for excessive shows of disappointment. If you drop your shoulders too much, you're out. If you cry, you're out. If you put your hands on your hips, you're out.