True that, and if Bolt was in the race he'd probably be picking up a victory flag by the time I would've got to the line...
What I meant was that this was sub-county/county youth level in the UK.. I can imagine as competition scales up that these outliers are found. How does he compare to Gemili?
lol... you are completely missing the point. You can go to USTFCCCA and listen to Vince A., and Joey W., etc. talk about how they set their program up... that's great. My point is, you can't take a few bits and pieces and try to replicate their program. It just doesn't work that way.It is great to listen and pick their brains a bit, but ultimately what you do will NEVER be exactly the same system simply because you are you. The way you see/perceive something, might be completely opposite to what a USTFCCCA instructor is seeing/perceiving. Having a good idea of their progression (Periods, Phases, Mesocycle, Microcycle design) can no doubt help you with program design, but again, you simply cannot replicate a program verbatim. PS... I might be a college coach, and may have coached a few decent people to become better. Annnnnd, I might have trained under one of your USTFCCCA gods.
coach d wrote:
Pow believable wrote:you're not wrong in your perception of intensities, but the fact that you think one can go out and replicate a phase of training, is completely ridiculous! There are so many variables taking place that without being there or having the EXACT same training administered to you BY THAT COACH or an associate, is impossible to replicate.
Were you using the EXACT same strength training as the MVP group? What about simple warm-up protocols? How about regeneration techniques?
It is good to have an understanding of a training program and implementation, but when it comes down to it, if you don't have a coach... WRITE YOUR OWN TRAINING!
What you and many others here don't seem to get is that the way knowledge is enhanced is from learning from the top people and what they're doing. That's why people like me go to USTFCCCA conventions and go elsewhere to see Renato Canova, paid for by our institution. We aren't all geniuses and we actually learn. And when something doesn't work, you try to find out.
Like most coaches that are employed, I don't talk much about what my team is doing or what my own training is, and some of this might be shocking high volume and back-back workouts for some sprinters on here, but....
I went from this (MVP-based) and got injured in transition to 60's and 120's on the track
Mon 4X400 long hills (intensive tempo effort)
Tue 10X40 steep hills
Wed off (MVP has a technical session here)
Thu 6X300 intensive tempo on grass
Fri 10X40 steep hills
To this (all grass special endurance level effort) and did not get injured in transition
Mon 4X2X150 barefoot on grass, rest 1-2 min/15 min
Tue 3X5X60 barefoot from blocks on grasss, rest walk back/15 min
Wed off
Thu 4X2X150 barefoot on grass, rest 1-2 min/15 min
Fri 3X5X60 barefoot from blocks on grasss, rest walk back/15 min
The new version has long set breaks to make the effort/speed special endurance at 90%+ but not 95%. The 3X5X60 actually starts at 3X5X30 and gets longer (short to long over the season). The weekly schedules of long-short-off-long-short or slight variation is what many professional groups (Bob Kersee, John Smith, Monte Stratton) are using for at least part of the season. There is a philosophy that many high level sprint coaches use that you can do back-back training if you use different energy systems.
Gemili is great, and exhibits much potential.
His basic form is very sound, but is ragged, and needs refinement--but he has the total package, hopefully he can build on all phases.
If Kiryu is actually 5'9 or 5'9.5, that changes things. In that case, he will compare very favorably to Gemili, and I could see them both going low-9.9x basic, cleanly, and therefore dipping down into low-9.8x with good wind.
If Kiryu IS only 17, and if the timing WAS accurate, and if he DOES really train on 50m of dirt, then he will go 9.7 before all is said and done, unless something catastrophic happens.
800m coach: "The number of injuries disappeared."
Really? Wow. Have you convinced anybody else of the merit of this approach?
and also... who are your athletes? can they handle these volumes? Do you have your freshmen doing the same training protocols as your seniors? Is this for men and women?
You've listed three coaches that are highly suspicious for drug use. I am not implicating them, just saying.
See what I mean, yet?
What is the context of "high intensity work" in the early prep season? Flying 10m's? 75m in and outs?
I believe that red-lining the system should always be present throughout the training year, but again, define it.
If my point hasn't come across in the previous posts, I'll try again... Reading about what some groups do and trying to implement it into your program is dangerous. Basic structure of a training plan can be replicated well, but just broadly stating "high intensity work", is read in many different ways by many different people.
There is a HUGE difference between your walk-on 11.2 guy, and your scholly 10.5 guy. And as I asked in a previous post... are you training your women the same way as your men?
Kiryu is not 5'9" not even close.
Look at real 5'9" guys, Dix and Greene, or 5'10" guys Gay, Martina. Does Kiryu look even close to that? He's 5'7" at best, in shoes.
Bolt rhymes with Halt. Oh well till next time.
I would love it if Bolt, Blake, and Jeter remain too injured to run worlds. The three most obvious dopers in track & field.
bolt won't be performing well for the rest of the year. He will be too busy playing Call of Duty-BlackOPs on PS3.. check out his twitter account http://instagram.com/p/Yv3zEYocat/#
Sprintgeezer wrote:
Well, what do you know...now Bolt allegedly has a "grade 1" strain, and has withdrawn from the Jamaica International Invitational on May 4.
Neither Bolt, Powell, nor Blake will be competing.
I can almost FEEL that medical treatment from here.
Like I said, I expect them all to return in form, later in the season--except for Powell, of course.
So you agree that Powell is clean? Possibly the fastest clean sprinter ever.
did it do it wrote:
The problem Coach D is that you get strength gains in certain muscle groups, the quads and the glutes/hip flexors and not in others from that kind of overdrive training, particularly the hamstrings and their tendons below the knee.
As you transition out of a start your hamstring starts taking greater and greater loads eccentrically and concentrically. These loads were never trained into the athlete and then you have a tear. In fact it would be difficult to impossible to train these loads into the muscle without a complete overhaul of pre seasonal training.
I have a feeling this is what happened to Walter Dix last year as well, and seems to have just missed Bolt, Blake, and Powell for the most part last season. But now it has caught up with them.
At the end of the day, sprinting is still a running event that requires balance and you have to keep balance in any training regimen. There is a very simple answer to these training issues, incredibly simple but I will not say what it is here.
I always find it amazing that some of the skinniest and smallest sprinters often have the most consistent performances and injury avoidance.
Unilateral training i.e. single leg training.
Also, i've noted greatly reduced hamstring soreness/injury potential in athletes who do preseason in minimalist footwear. Regular, bulky "training" shoes distort proper posture and you are asking for injury when transitioning to zero drop flat spikes.
body master wrote:
did it do it wrote:The problem Coach D is that you get strength gains in certain muscle groups, the quads and the glutes/hip flexors and not in others from that kind of overdrive training, particularly the hamstrings and their tendons below the knee.
As you transition out of a start your hamstring starts taking greater and greater loads eccentrically and concentrically. These loads were never trained into the athlete and then you have a tear. In fact it would be difficult to impossible to train these loads into the muscle without a complete overhaul of pre seasonal training.
I have a feeling this is what happened to Walter Dix last year as well, and seems to have just missed Bolt, Blake, and Powell for the most part last season. But now it has caught up with them.
At the end of the day, sprinting is still a running event that requires balance and you have to keep balance in any training regimen. There is a very simple answer to these training issues, incredibly simple but I will not say what it is here.
I always find it amazing that some of the skinniest and smallest sprinters often have the most consistent performances and injury avoidance.
Unilateral training i.e. single leg training.
Also, i've noted greatly reduced hamstring soreness/injury potential in athletes who do preseason in minimalist footwear. Regular, bulky "training" shoes distort proper posture and you are asking for injury when transitioning to zero drop flat spikes.
you're full of sh!t...
The training of all top sprinters is abysmally bad.
Kim Collins has the closest thing to a rational training program. Little superfluous running, no gross misuse of weights.
body master: "So you agree that Powell is clean? Possibly the fastest clean sprinter ever."
Yes, possibly. His best times are down in that range that I believe the best could theoretically get, the only problem being that they didn't have absolutely max wind.
He is a good height, neither very tall nor very short. He uses his height well in his running style. His start and acceleration represent the perfect balance of efficiency and power for his body, IMO. His body is well-balanced. He has been consistently good for a long time.
The knocks against him are that he seems to disappear from big meets, and that his brother tested positive for ephedrine and was given a 3-month ban.
He has shown flashes of brilliance--like his 9.74 (+1.7) and, even better, 9.78 (0.0) day in Rieti, and his 8.70 split on the Beijing anchor. Absolute brilliance. If he could exhibit his top-speed form and endurance from Beijing in any of his races, he would be under 9.80 every single time he steps on a track, the first half of his race is that good.
He is getting older, I think he's 30 now--but that just means that he has to be smarter about things than he has been in the past. In fact, he was recently quoted as having said just exactly that. In the London final, he stumbled because he tried to get out too fast even for him, and drove too low; he knew that his inferior SE would get him swallowed-up in the second half of the race. If he's smarter about training, he can save his body, keep his start, AND exhibit his Beijing SE. I agree that he should run fewer races, even though it will mean less money.
He will apparently do only 2 races before Jamaican nationals, and I question even that requirement. Hopefully he can find 2 relatively easy races, where he does not have to really push himself. I hope to see him not do very many races this year, and not travel too much, and come out battling with Gay at the end of the season for top spot overall, while the obvious dopers sit in the stands and lick their wounds.
body master: "Also, i've noted greatly reduced hamstring soreness/injury potential in athletes who do preseason in minimalist footwear. Regular, bulky "training" shoes distort proper posture and you are asking for injury when transitioning to zero drop flat spikes."
Unlike an above poster, I actually agree with this in the case of sprint training, where the training goes to fatigue. While you are fresh, you can stay up and paw the ground nicely; when you are fatigued, that is one of the first things to go, for every reason in the book...and if you are accustomed to relying on an elevated heel to be there, to help you out when your heel drops, and it is all of a sudden missing...
...improper posture and injury, just like body master said.
This is but one reason why barefoot training is being more and more favored in preseason.
Yes, one of the most amazing things I have ever seen, was Powell running a 9.7629 WR in Gateshead, North East England, a place usually cold & rainy! 9.72 would be a worthy WR, and I wonder if Gay could surpass it without Bolt running 9.58 alongside (it would be close.. Powell and Gay would be a great 1&2). Powell has been unlucky in the major (OG/WC) comps, maybe because he runs so many races? (Going by his number of sub-10s, a sign of being clean being his consistency and ultra consistent progression and reliability over a single race on most days) Powell would be a worthy Olympic Champion in 04 or 08 and deserves at the very least a medal in 08 or 04. Similarly VCB/Williams would be a worthy OC in 04. 2004 OG - What about Obikwelu, Powell, Collins for a medal line up?
For sure he will fly to Germany for a couple of "treatments" by Hans Wohlfart.
He was significantly slower than Blake for the 12' Olympic trials...struggling to break 9.90...and 1 month later, magically...he could JOG 9.90's.
If that wasn´t doping...no athlete in the world is doped.
race report
"Bolt goes down in front of Patton, and Gay finishes on top of Dix"
His 9.72 with +0.2 was brilliant. Imagine if he had the max allowable wind like Tyson Gay had in his 9.69. Powell would be well below 9.65 what a staggering personal record that would have been!