How did El Guerrouj Escape While Many of His Countrymen Got Caught?

I do not get too into guilt by nationality (we could say a lot about US sprinters). That said, views change as years go by. The longer we go without anyone getting close to those times, the more I start to wonder about the era. It seems like we saw incredible runs for a few years and now the times are just slower for no apparent reason.

Maybe Morcelli, El G, Lagat, Geb, Komen and Bekele were just a better group than the decade that followed. Maybe one could argue that they pushed one another. However, it is starting to seem a bit odd. If we get to 2018 and noone gets close, then I will really wonder.

I mean, does anyone believe Flojo was clean? For that matter, does anyone believe that most women's records are clean?

suboptimal wrote: does anyone believe that most women's records are clean?

Does anyone believe the men's records are clean?

100% doper

He was the morrocan federations star athlete so would have been well protected

he also retired at the right time

I doubt the iaaf/ioc sincerity in anti-doping matters

I wonder if he was retested last year?

Lagat was one of the few who could compete with him-was he clean?

It's incredible that they've all gotten away with it

geb, bekele, guerrouj etc

i think testing and busts are 'window dressing' really

-drug busts are bad for business

-peds are here to stay

This is an important topic. I want to expose any and all dopers. I believe El G was a doper. I also believe Fermin Cacho, Ngeny, Estevez, Morceli, Aouita were dopers. There are others too, and the the list goes on...

I know a lot of people worship the king of the mile, but he was assisted. He was a beast. No doubt. But he was assisted. I believe that Lagat was using during that era as much as anybody else. I also believe Lagat is one of the most genetically gifted middle distance/distance runners we will ever see

Personally I think the fact that so many of El G's teammates got caught says more about the depth of running talent in Morocco than whether or not El G was doped. It showed that Morocco didn't have any athletes good enough to hang with him during practice, so they doped up who they had so El G had some people to run with.

- so many of his compatriots were busted

-his doped up contemporaries during the epo boom couldn't keep pace with him

-his insane consistency,training,performance level and lack

of injuries

all point to doping

Here's a theory no one is discussing: We can't yet rule out that he escaped the doping police because he was clean.He had a fairly long career at the top, spanning as a Junior in 1992 (before the EPO era), until 2004 (four years after a test for EPO was developed).Before Athens 2004, El Guerrouj had won 84 out of 89 races at 1500m and the mile. In 2001 and 2002, he won 20 straight races in a row. Plenty of opportunities for targeted testing, if drug authorities had any reason to be suspicious.

Kyzer Sozenator wrote:

With atleast 25 Morrocan Track and Field athletes getting caught and banned while a few 'missed' testing, how did Hicham El Guerrouj manage to escape the doping police for so long? Any theories? In fact, one of the dopers who was caught was essentially El Guerrouj's rabbit during his most important races.

A broader question is whether some elite athletes are more prone to getting positive doping results as a result of a different response by each athlete. Or could it be that some athletes have perfected the dosage necessary to not show a positive result for certain performancce enhancing drugs? How about the idea that the best of the best are getting newer, better, less detectable drugs where others are given what still works but that requires more care to pass a test?

Discuss!

Aouita tried to get the aussies to dope when he coached down there. They said no (Mark Fountain etc)- he couldn't believe that they were clean apparently.

Kyzer Sozenator wrote:

I actually thought of that one but I just don't think it's as much of a factor as what I wrote above since Marion Jones was outed and we know how big of a star she was internationally. That pretty smile and welcoming face and beautiful body, oh how perfect she was for promoting Track and Field. I guess your point stands that the 'big stars' can only be protected as long as possible before the 'organization' turns on them. Care to expand on your thought?

Marion Jones was taken down by the federal government, not the IAAF.

Surely the same thing could be asked of Michael Johnson.

It seems every teammate on his 4 x 400 WRs got caught using -- but Johnson, the fastest of them all, did not

Kyzer Sozenator wrote:

taco truck wrote:

How about Morceli and Said? In hindsight, I think they were cheaters as well.

I agree but then so did Coe.

You can't state as a fact that Coe, or indeed anyone, was cheating. That's absurd.

With Aouita there is evidence that he was based on what happened in Australia. There is suspicions also about El Guerrouj based on the fact that several of his training partners were busted, and the fact he was able to run prolific fast times with seemingly little after effects.

There is no evidence whatsoever surrounding Coe, or some of the other names mentioned by others on this thread.

rekrunner

they didn't have proper testing 'til 06

0% chance he was clean-hardly worthy of debate

why does it matter?

-there's clean guys who lost out for a start

and he's been tryin to fool us

The answer to any question like this is to look at Lance Armstrong. And they were elite at the same time.

If you have the resources, you can do a lot without detection.

Lower level athletes do not have the same resources or they make mistakes and get caught.

Sometime high profile athletes make mistakes.

The question is not so much how did someone not get caught.

You have to look at the athletes that were caught and ask how did that happen.

With Ben Johnson either his drink was spiked in the testing room or he took some stuff to close to the Games that his coach was not aware of.

I want to know how Ramzi got caught at the Olympics.

Did he push his cyle too close? Did he get a bdad batch of something?

curiosssity wrote:

Is it possible that El G was the Usain Bolt of the 1500/mile? Still as doped as everybody else, but undeniably more talented? Is that a fair assumption? How much faster were other 1500m times on average during the "EPO Era"? Obviously El G ran a ton of times sub 3:30, but how frequently were others cracking sub 3:30 as, say, compared to sub-3:30 times from 2005-present?

I'm of the belief that the guy is an amazing athlete who is the most genetically superior 1500m/miler ever. If we assume that Asbel Kiprop is 'clean,' I don't think doping him to El G proportions would produce the kind of performances El G had.

I would agree with the premise that El G was an incredible natural talent. He had a long build up of structured training, the right body, great stride, and good training environment. Combine that with the right drugs (that are being previously-tested and perfected on his training partners) and you have a F@ING IVAN DRAGO of the mile!

I think a flag that needs to be pointed out is his abrupt retirement from the sport. He ran 3:26, 3:28, 3:27 in 2002, 2003, and 2004 respectively. There was no real indication that he was getting slower at 1500, and he obviously had a huge capacity to dominate the 5,000. Sure, maybe he was getting bored dominating for 12 years and just couldn't find the motivation anymore / wanted to pursue more lucrative career opportunities.

Did he get injured in 2005?

I like El G, his training philosophy is sound, and he runs smooth like butter, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence here. No doubt he could have run phenomenal times unaided.

bangalangadanga wrote:

I think a flag that needs to be pointed out is his abrupt retirement from the sport. He ran 3:26, 3:28, 3:27 in 2002, 2003, and 2004 respectively. There was no real indication that he was getting slower at 1500, and he obviously had a huge capacity to dominate the 5,000. Sure, maybe he was getting bored dominating for 12 years and just couldn't find the motivation anymore / wanted to pursue more lucrative career opportunities.

Did he get injured in 2005?

I like El G, his training philosophy is sound, and he runs smooth like butter, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence here. No doubt he could have run phenomenal times unaided.

Don't forget he was waiting for an Olympic gold until 2004. He missed it in 1996, then again in 2000 but in 2004 he took two golds so it's not unimaginable that he simply lost the motivation. This is by the way what he claimed.

He announced going into 2004 that it would be his last year.

He was either #1 or #2 in the world for 10 straight years.

Generally, that's a pretty long and solid career for a runner.

I never saw anything suspicious about retiring on top with a fairly long career in the bag.

His performances were suspicious, but not his retirement.

Monumental wrote:

You can't state as a fact that Coe, or indeed anyone, was cheating. That's absurd.

With Aouita there is evidence that he was based on what happened in Australia. There is suspicions also about El Guerrouj based on the fact that several of his training partners were busted, and the fact he was able to run prolific fast times with seemingly little after effects.

There is no evidence whatsoever surrounding Coe, or some of the other names mentioned by others on this thread.

Well, Coe did get toxoplasmosis, which you can get from blood transfusions.