elmore345 wrote:
So its all about the money. Greedy fcuks.
It's not greed. This is how they make their living.
Do you have a job? Would you do it for free? Let's say, you don't take one week for free.
But, these guys don't race every week.
They're giving up either a pay day or training time for a pay day down the road.
I wish Ritz had run just to see how badly off the "Can the US beat the Kenyans?" thing would have been. The Americans, nothing against them, will get shithoused by Kenya, badly, just like they do year. No longer matters what the Kenyan team looks like "on paper" before the meet. Same with the Ethiopians and now the Ugandans too. It's an all-Africa contest and if you took all of the Europeans and North Americans out of the results they would scarcely change.
He couldn't possibly be turning up in a major U.S. road race around the same time instead, could he? I seem to recall he did one about the same time last year.
Every year folks fantasize about an American Dream Team for World XC. Every year this fantasy is completely ignored by the true elites of the sport in the US.
And this year's reality surprises you why exactly? Ritz won't run is news how exactly?
wejo wrote:
tinpan alley wrote:He or any other serious pro is not going to just jump into US XC or Worlds for $10K-$20K and mess with his training schedule or risk injury, even if it's the best race on the planet.
Well Ritz did run USAXC and there isn't a big payday there.
Although I know a lot of the shoe contracts used to have big bonuses for winning USA XC or it was an automatic non-reduction event. Wonder if that still is the case for some contracts even with XC on the decline.
National Championship bonus structure is likely in Ritz's contract, $X for appearing/competing, $Y for placing, $Z for winning.
runn wrote:
elmore345 wrote:So its all about the money. Greedy fcuks.
It's not greed. This is how they make their living.
Do you have a job? Would you do it for free? Let's say, you don't take one week for free.
But, these guys don't race every week.
They're giving up either a pay day or training time for a pay day down the road.
Oh come on, being a professional athlete is not the same thing as being, say, middle management at J.C. Penny.
red glare wrote:
wejo wrote:Well Ritz did run USAXC and there isn't a big payday there.
Although I know a lot of the shoe contracts used to have big bonuses for winning USA XC or it was an automatic non-reduction event. Wonder if that still is the case for some contracts even with XC on the decline.
National Championship bonus structure is likely in Ritz's contract, $X for appearing/competing, $Y for placing, $Z for winning.
And there's no similar set of incentives for World XC?
Look at it another way...it gives other US guys a chance to really break out and shine. If, by some miracle, an unknown does really well @ World XCs...that means something. That means that guy beat some of the toughest competition on the planet. Not to mention HORDES of Africans. It gives you credibility. Respect. MARKETABILITY.
Come on guys, he has the Shamrock Shuffle coming up.
Truth Sayer wrote:
Look at it another way...it gives other US guys a chance to really break out and shine. If, by some miracle, an unknown does really well @ World XCs...that means something. That means that guy beat some of the toughest competition on the planet. Not to mention HORDES of Africans. It gives you credibility. Respect. MARKETABILITY.
Okay, that is pretty cool. I suppose there is a silver lining to every cloud. Especially since I'm pretty sure Bobby Mack would be the one losing his spot, and I'm a big Bobby Mack fan.
There's only a similar set of incentives in his contract if he or his agent were interested enough/smart enough/foresightful enough to negotiate to include incentives for individual medals/top three US team finishes at Word Cross.
You know Lynn Jennings earned some serious $$ for all those WXC medals of hers.
urdtgyu wrote:
I don't know the specific numbers on Ritz but this hypothetical should demonstrate why he's not greedy. Let's say a Nike runner makes $200,000 per year from appearance fees for races plus $300,000 from endorsements. He gets this amount of money from age 20 to the end of his career at age 35. That's a cool $500,000 a year for 15 years. Doesn't sound too bad does it? The problem is that the cash flow comes to a halt at age 35. He might get lucky and be offered a cushy job by Nike but there are no guarantees so he has to plan as if he's not going to make any more money. If he lives to 70 years old, that $500,000 per year becomes $10,000 per year.
Sure, he's not going to retire then make no money for the rest of his life. But this demonstrates how a significant amount of money in the short term becomes very little when it has to stretch so long. Even great runners have to work for a living after they retire so I can't blame anyone for making as much as they can right now.
You have made some strange assumptions here. I know you had to throw out numbers just to have some, but he turned 20 halfway through his second year. He turned professional in 2004 after the Olympics and ran his first pro race on 12/31/2004 the day after he turned 22. So the first year he was being paid was 2005 as a 22-yr-old.
I have no way of knowing what he gets paid, and I am not going to pretend, but $300,000 from "endorsements"? If you mean Nike salary, yes I suppose he could be making that much, but not every year. And the $200,000 figure? He doesn't race enough to pull that every year. I am sure he makes quite a lot from a NYCM or London Marathon appearance, but beyond that, how often has he raced in a paying race?
Bill Rodgers or Herb Lindsay or Greg Meyer raced at a paying road race more times in one year than Ritz has in the last 8 years.
But now, the biggest flaw: If someone earned $500,000 a year for 15 years that would make $7,500,000 gross. Even after taxes and living expenses you would have half that left over. Let's face it, a distance runner with a child isn't spending winters in St. Moritz and summers in Monaco. he would live the ascetic lifestyle needed and live like someone making $150,000 at most.
So after your career is over you would have about $3 or 4M. Just like I had $350,000 saved at age 35, when I graduated at age 27 and never made more than $45K at that age. And right now my one interest earning IMMA earns 1.73%. I am sure Ritz can find one just as good or better, and that would earn him $65,000 a year, forever or as long as that interest rate holds up. For me that has been the lowest rate I have been given in 17 years. It was recently as high as 2.25% and 3% a few yrs ago.
So, you see, while your idea is right (i.e. he has to make hay while the sun shines) your assumptions are a little too pessimistic.
This is the reason I laugh when I read about any Football or Basketball or Baseball star having financial problems after they retire or their career ends due to injury. You just have to make all kinds of mistakes if you made a good salary for 10 years to ever run out of money.
The news came out two days ago Ritz isn't running World XC.
The squads are here:
Cross Country is Ritz's best surface and he's not running a spring marathon so it's a little surprising. Anyone know if he has a minor injury? Or was the plan never to run World XC?
Ritz doesn't indicate any sort of injury in his last blog post:
http://dathanritzenhein.competitor.com/2013/02/08/usa-xc-recap/
In the Week that Was, Rojo threw out the crazy idea, "Could the US Win World XC?" (or at least beat Kenya).
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2013/02/cain-montano-andrews-0218/
With Ritz, on paper, the US top 4 compared well to Kenya's top 4. (That was before Geoffrey Kipsang who skipped the Kenyan Trials was added to the Kenyan team, but imagine if the US had Galen Rupp on its team).
Now I guess the "Miracle on Dirt" will have to wait or be a true Miracle.
urdtgyu wrote:
That's a cool $500,000 a year for 15 years. Doesn't sound too bad does it? The problem is that the cash flow comes to a halt at age 35. He might get lucky and be offered a cushy job by Nike but there are no guarantees so he has to plan as if he's not going to make any more money. If he lives to 70 years old, that $500,000 per year becomes $10,000 per year.
As a former HS math teacher, I must say math isn't your strong point.
If you make $500,000 per year from age 20 to 35, that's a total of %7.5 million.
$7.5 million divided by 50 - (age 20 to 70) is $150,000 per year.
You are WAY, WAY OFF.
If you make $500,000 TOTAL, it's $10,000 per year.
Nice try.
xc is not a major
Rupp
Lagat
Ritz
Derrick
Tegenkamp
Lomong
back-ups
Bumbalough
Jager
True
Solinsky
Heath
Hall
Curtis
Vaughn
Meb
Torrence
runn wrote:
It's not greed. This is how they make their living.
Do you have a job? Would you do it for free? Let's say, you don't take one week for free.
But, these guys don't race every week.
They're giving up either a pay day or training time for a pay day down the road.
Actually, I do a lot of work for free. Particularly in terms of representing the profession to the public. Lots of evenings and weekends spent on this kind of thing.
Refusing to run a high-profile meet where the US could do well, because the pay day is to small? Just short-sighted and bad for Ritz's profession (aka the sport).
Train, Train train, never race until it looks like TODAY might be that perfect day
Folks ought toi take a friggin page out of Rupp's book on this
Let me help you wrote:
You have made some strange assumptions here. I know you had to throw out numbers just to have some, but he turned 20 halfway through his second year. He turned professional in 2004 after the Olympics and ran his first pro race on 12/31/2004 the day after he turned 22. So the first year he was being paid was 2005 as a 22-yr-old.
I have no way of knowing what he gets paid, and I am not going to pretend, but $300,000 from "endorsements"? If you mean Nike salary, yes I suppose he could be making that much, but not every year. And the $200,000 figure? He doesn't race enough to pull that every year. I am sure he makes quite a lot from a NYCM or London Marathon appearance, but beyond that, how often has he raced in a paying race?
Bill Rodgers or Herb Lindsay or Greg Meyer raced at a paying road race more times in one year than Ritz has in the last 8 years.
But now, the biggest flaw: If someone earned $500,000 a year for 15 years that would make $7,500,000 gross. Even after taxes and living expenses you would have half that left over. Let's face it, a distance runner with a child isn't spending winters in St. Moritz and summers in Monaco. he would live the ascetic lifestyle needed and live like someone making $150,000 at most.
So after your career is over you would have about $3 or 4M. Just like I had $350,000 saved at age 35, when I graduated at age 27 and never made more than $45K at that age. And right now my one interest earning IMMA earns 1.73%. I am sure Ritz can find one just as good or better, and that would earn him $65,000 a year, forever or as long as that interest rate holds up. For me that has been the lowest rate I have been given in 17 years. It was recently as high as 2.25% and 3% a few yrs ago.
So, you see, while your idea is right (i.e. he has to make hay while the sun shines) your assumptions are a little too pessimistic.
This is the reason I laugh when I read about any Football or Basketball or Baseball star having financial problems after they retire or their career ends due to injury. You just have to make all kinds of mistakes if you made a good salary for 10 years to ever run out of money.
Like I said, I don't know the specific numbers on Ritz. Those were just off the wall numbers as a placeholder to show the point that a guy like Ritz's major earning years are limited. If my numbers are too high then that reinforces my point.
Graeme McDowell wrote:
Come on guys, he has the Shamrock Shuffle coming up.
I know this was probably meant as a joke, but the sad reality is that he will likely earn more running the shamrock shuffle than he would running World XC.