Title IX solutions?

amen to du-can

The most obvious solution is to eliminate football.

Many schools have already done this. The sooner that more do the better.

If you don't want to eliminate men's football, then the remaining solution is to eliminate an equivalent number of other men's sports so women will have an equal opportunity to participate.

Taking equal opportunity away from women is NOT okay.

If 2/3 of D1A football makes money, then I'm going to stick with my proposal. This isn't going to be a cure-all, but it will be an improvement.

du-can has it right. If the same number of women and men are interested in playing sports, then the numbers of those playing should be equal. But in reality there are fewer women interested in participating in collegiate sports. So the answer is to find out how many people of each sex are interested and base the numbers of those participating on that.

How does that sound for a solution?

Actually, 16x, there's a website, called Portraits of America, that has a lot of statistics that can be used in the standard debates that go on around America (like Title IX). It seems to be down all the time, but if you go to google.com you get a cached snapshot of the old website. I remember that someone mentioned it in one of the previous Title IX debates. It shows that if you account for alumni donations made specifically for football and money added to other sports through sponsorships with football, that approximately 70% of D1 Football Teams make money for their schools.

third choice:

Haven't you ever pondered things like how much time and money is spent "gathering generated revenue" for the Football team. I don't see any programs academic or otherwise on college campuses that are as "juiced" in manpower and resources as a typical D1 football team is. Football keeps so many people on the payroll it isn't funny. If the general student body were to revolt, (and they won't) they could get the stats on just how succulent the football program is compared to their chemistry program, art program, etc. - and I feel confident they could show these programs AREN'T paying for themselves.

Higher education and eztracurricular activities aren't, or should not be about money. They exists to offer activities outside of the classroom that relate to health and wellbeing. Fairness and equity isn't about cash flow. It's about treating groups of individuals equitably. Universities would be farther ahead if they canned all sports/sport scholarships and put the taxpayers and students money into intramurals which are offered to EVERYBODY.

It disgusts me to watch the NFL use college teams as thier farm teams.

No one is going to alter Title IX, nor should they. It would be political suicide.

"Universities would be farther ahead if they canned all sports/sport scholarships and put the taxpayers and students money into intramurals which are offered to EVERYBODY."

If the way to measure compliance with Title IX is by participation, your suggestion doesn't change anything.

The only complaints I see with TIX are mostly money issues. Intramurals and other extra curricular activities offered to everyone will determine where the money goes based on demand. If women want ballet, and men want football, then so be it. If more women play than men - then thye will get more funds, and the other way around.

Much of the bitching and moaning comes from the fact that there are many of you (males) that are disgrutled because colleges recruit or create women's programs that are filled with "lesser" athletes than the men's teams. Maybe these women would be better off doing something else extra-curricular like a jazz-dance (gag-me personally) team, or touch football, maybe they would like to have a hiking group - who knows? Why is it that the women's extra-curricular activities offered have to mirror what is offered to men? If the interests are different - then offer a difference in activities.

Find out what the women want to do - the only thing that matters is equal opportunity to participate.

\"Find out what the women want to do - the only thing that matters is equal opportunity to participate.\" -16x

This is what should matter but it?s not what does matter. What does matter is that when a lawyer looks at participation numbers s/he sees that there are the same number of men and women participating with the same number of scholarships.

If what women were interested in doing were considered men wouldn\'t have to be turned away from walking onto teams while the women\'s team can\'t fill their roster with people who only showed up for one day, and quit. Varsity athletics are for the very top athletes who are willing to put in a lot of time and effort into their sport. Title IX enforcement relies on the assumption that the same percentage of women are willing to put in the time and effort as men. But if that?s not true then problems start to occur, like entire swimming/wrestling/crew programs getting cut, or money just being thrown at women\'s teams. My school has a yearly banquette for all of the women\'s sports teams where letter jackets are given out and I\'m sure other things as well. The men?s teams don\'t have one. The only real purpose of it is to balance out Title IX dollars, which is a total waste. If Title IX enforcement should be based on opportunities given AND interest to take advantage of those opportunities. If there wasn\'t interest in a men?s track team because all the guys wanted to play football then fine. But having tight limits on who can participate in track (or any other sport) while women?s teams will accept anybody and everybody is not equal opportunity.

Clearly it takes a very smart man or woman to become the president of a major D1 university. They must be very aware of everything that is going on. Now, why would all of these men and women be in favor of spending so much money on football if there wasn't a practical output? You are convinced that they must lose money because they don't announce their exact budgets. Well, that's silly, because you could guess anything... I guess that they must be spending a million dollars a year on birth control pills for their cheerleaders, so they don't get pregnant and fat. I just have a hunch, but I'll post it here anyway because I like seeing my words on the computer screen...

[sarcasm implied]

Yo,

How can you losers possibly justify women getting athletic scholarships? Look at women's sports vs. men's sports. Only three girl pro basketball players can dunk, and their dunks are lame and they're with a smaller, lighter basketball. Who the hell wants to watch that? I know of ten separate dudes I went to high school with that can dunk to this day much sweeter than those PRO women and all they do is sit around tripping on meth all day.

I believe that college should only be available for people that DESERVE TO BE THERE. Women are worse athletes, everyone knows it. Why should they get in when there are MEN that can run FASTER, jump HIGHER and do EVERYTHING ELSE flat out BETTER than them? Are you saying that women are so INCREDIBLY BAD at sports that we feel sorry for them and give them scholarships so they'll feel good about themselves? That philosophy SUCKS, if you ask me.

Now, for my ralling cry:

BAN FEMALE ATHLETICS!

I'm out.

I just want to announce that the vast majority of opponents to Title IX do not support people like bitter seaman (above). I whole-heartedly support women's athletics. However, statistically it has been shown that Title IX has not increased the rate at which women join teams, and has actually slowed down the increase of women in sports. Also, many will argue well that it is not the federal government's place to dictate how private universities run their athletics programs.

I'm all for women's athletics and equality, but the women here are being hypocritical and their arguments are largely BS. Instead of sitting on your butts and complaining about male oppression, do something proactive because no one is stopping you from having 85 scholarships except yourselves. You would rather complain and attack men than take the initiative to do something positive to overcome what you perceive as athletic scholarship gender discrepancies. We're not taking anything away from women, you just aren't figuring out a viable way to utilize 85 more scholarships that are indeed right in front of you.

There is an 11% difference between top male and female track performances, so clearly women cannot compete with men on a football field. Very, very few women could play college football on a team with men based on 'merit'.

You want equality? So create NCAA all-women's football teams and you have 85 more scholarships for female athletes. All paid for by the men's football teams by the way. Ahhh---the rub. It seems women are not interested in playing football. Like a frustrated parent, I would say tough, you have your chance for an athletic opportunity and scholarship money to go to college and you're passing it up. But that's unfair, kind of like making a spoiled child eat their liver at dinner when they truly hate it.

So advocate for the creation of other women's teams you will participate on, don't tear down men's teams because you're only doing so out of spite couched in the self-righteousness of reverse gender discrimination. WHAT ATHLETIC ACTIVITIES ARE WOMEN INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING IN? I'll help you: Fitness competitions, aerobics competitions, kick-boxing teams, water ballet, snowshoeing teams, equestrian teams, any of the martial arts, etc. Get the picture?

There are plenty of ways to utilize 85 athletic scholarships in a legitimate fashion to your liking and no man is stopping women from doing that. Women don't want to play football so IMHO they're choosing to forego 85 readily available scholarships. But the scholarships have been there right in front of your noses all along. You've been so busy complaining about men that you don't see them for yourselves.

So how do women use 85 scholarships if not for football? If women eschew football and refuse to play it collegiately or field a team, fine. Instead of complaining (when you're on paper letting 85 scholarships go to waste), put your combative heads together, figure out what other athletic activities it is you do like to do, put a proposal together, and a cooperative, responsible university will create enough teams with requisite scholarships (totalling 85) for their adequate function.

Don't be such a wuss, "third choice". Nobody likes pansies like you. Be a man, and stand up for yourself!

If you think it's fair that a WOMAN can get a scholarship for running SLOWER than you for SHORTER DISTANCES, you need to lay off the wacky tobacky and get a FRIKKIN' CLUE!

Shalene Flanagan was an ALL-AMERICAN, I repeat, and ALL-AMERICAN last year in cross country, and she ADMITTED to WALKING part of the course! Moral of the story? Basically, in order to be an All-American female runner at the Division 1 level, all you need to do is KEEP RUNNING THE ENTIRE TIME. So basically if some girl can run 6k in a row, she gets to go to college for free and she also gets to be rewarded as an ALL-AMERICAN? WHATEVER.

Women's sports are worse. There is IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE to support this claim.

If women wanted equal rights, they would play with the same sized basketballs as men, they would play 5 sets in tennis like the men, they would run 10k at nationals like the men just as fast as the men, and they wouldn't play frikkin' SOFTBALL anymore, they'd play BASEBALL (and I mean it when I say "don't get me started with softball").

If they wanted equal rights, they'd also QUIT WHINING and START TRAINING. I'm not talking about 70 miles a week, females need to train 200 miles a week to catch up to the SUPERIOR MALE RACE!

It is impossible to fully comprehend how much worse female athletics are than male athletics. A message to women- HEADS UP CHICAS! AFTER COLLEGE EVERYTHING ISN'T GOING TO BE HANDED TO YOU! Stop WHINING and PREPARE yourself for REALITY! Otherwise, shut up and make me something good to eat!

I'm out.

I justed want to give a quick shout-out regarding all the MALE supporters of Title IX . . .

It is obvious that all you're trying to do is SCORE points with FEMALES. No male really believes in title IX . . . but some say they do just to get DATES.

C-DAWG doesn't need to spread lies to make whoopee with the HONEYS. So he can tell it like it is.

C-DAWG is outta here.

And there you have it folks.....

Here's one for the stat man. 60% of all college students are female. Thus females should get 60% of all extra-curricular funds.

You boys were just born at the wrong time in history. 100 years ago, before minorities gained civil rights and even before women had the right to vote - you didn't have to share a thing. Picture it, it must have been grand for the caucasian male, slaves, land ownership, voting power, education - all to yourselves.

Now you have to share. This means you get less of the pie. Instead of being excited that you live in a world that is trying to balance the scales - you cry. You act like selfish, indulgent little children - all you do is think about yourselves and how everything affects you. Why not be happy that opportunities are extended to more people now? No, you can't because you are too self indulgent. Spoiled.

You are wrong third choice when you say that Title IX hasn't increased female participation in sports - it has increased in tremendously, and if you'd like to show me your stats, I will show you mine. Just as civil rights opened doors for people of color.

No one said you have to be the greatest athlete to play sports in high school and college. How did you guys come to be the judges of athletic abilities anyway? If it weren't for your African-American Female and Male sprinters at the Olympic Games, the US wouldn't even get a medal in recent years. White US males suck at the international level, so they should cancel all male events at the Olympic trials past the 400 meters. BECAUSE YOU SUCK!!!!

Have a Merry Christ-filled Christmas.

100 meters

I have posted the following in an earlier thread, but here we go again. It is clear that Title IX is not working as intended. Title IX was adopted to create more opportunities for women. Right now Title IX is being used to create fewer opportunities for men. I am not against mild form of affirmative action, and some of the most fanatic guys in this thread are way of base. However, the same can be said about some of the ultra ?feminists? posting here. It is a fact that women?s participation in sports was already increasing at an exponential rate before title IX was adopted. After title IX was adopted women?s participation in sports still grew, but at a slower rate than before. Today the fact is that no AD would dare to cut women?s or minority programs anymore. I honestly no longer see a dire need for title IX.

It is also a fact that most DI football teams make money (see below), and thus they won?t be cut, ever. So if we are to create a solution, we cannot expect the 85 football scholarships to disappear.

A 1997 survey by the NCAA shows only 43% of schools in Division 1-A, which includes the largest state universities and private schools, showed income exceeded revenue on their athletic programs.

While this same report shows 71% of 1-A schools showed revenue over expenses in football, and an average profit of $5 million on that sport, several factors, including normal escalation of costs, and mandated participation in non-revenue producing sports, drops the figure to 43% of the schools showing a profit on their athletic programs. And, that is only with the very largest schools.

Source:

http://www.portraitofamerica.com/html/poll-1199.html

--------------------------------------------------------------

Average Profit (Deficit) for DI athletics:

Year->1985-1989--1993--1995---1997--1999---2001

Men 500 1,200 2,500 12,400 3,300 4,000 4,900

Women (700) (1,200) (1,300) (1,700) (2,300) (2,400) (3,200)

Source:

http://www.ncaa.org/library/research/i_ii_rev_exp/2002/d1_d2_revenues_expenses.pdf

-Clay

"100 meters", I am having a big laugh at your expense right now. HA HA HA HA HA!

You are jumping to crazy conclusions over there, lady, but I don't blame you because you're obviously a girl of some sort.

Let me ask you this, "100 meters", who goes to female sporting events besides little girls and little boys who don't know better? I want a straight answer. If anybody does, it's because they're emotionally disturbed, banging one of the girls, on drugs, or they don't know any better because they're STUPID. Going to a WNBA game is like paying 20$ to see a JV boys high school game... in slow motion, and no one is allowed to jump.

I'll do my impression of announcers doing a WNBA game... "C-Spoon is all alone on the fast break.... AND SHE LAYS IT IN! The crowd goes wild!"

"Did you see the form of that layup, Cynthia Miller? Let's see the replay, dribble, dribble, two steps, and right in the hole. That's the kind of game smarts that can't be taught."

"There's a reason she's an all-star, Greg."

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING!

Women's track races are just like men's track races, only they're slower, the same person always wins, there are no fights, and people hug and cry more. Who wants to watch that crap? For me, the jury is still out whether "female athletics" can really be called "sports".

I don't mind sharing, "100 meters". I really don't. I mean, women have come a long way, they used to be completely inferior to men in every sport, now they're completely inferior to men in every sport. They should be rewarded.

Girls should get just as much money for producing worse results, in fact, they should get MORE money than the men. After all, more people watch women's collegiate field hockey than they watch collegiate football. You're right, women's basketball is on TV all the time because people really want to watch it.

HA! I was being sarcastic. NOBODY watches women's sports and you should consider it a BLESSING that women's sports even EXIST! If I were in charge, they'd be eliminated completely until women could compete with men.

Stay away from the message boards, this is a MAN's game, "100 meters"!

I'm out.

You don't need a scholarship to run. You don't need to belong to some crappy college x-country team to run. In a strange way, Title IX may actually improve distance running as a whole in this country. As colleges eliminate programs, we may see more people get involved with groups outside of the college running community- groups that are focused on actually developing runners over the long term instead of focusing on winning the next meet against their rival. If you want a scholarship, hit the books or better yet, work a few years while going to school and pay for it yourself. If someone's main reason for being on their college's team is so they can have a scholarship, my opinion is that they're involved for the wrong reasons.