The McGorty (FL South winner) conundrum, what would you do?

The best want to race the best. I don't blame him at all for running Foot Locker, which is the superior championship.

Interesting discussion here, save fir the "dirtball" remarks, so having been in this situation as a coach, I'll chime in.

At Baylor we had a loaded squad in '07, contending for NTN Regionals that also had two stud individuals: Waldo du Plessis and Bill Matthews. Bill was a junior and instead of shooting for Footlocker, he ran with the team at NTN Regional, knowing he could try Footlocker his senior year. I left the decision up to him.

We ended up 3rd, and prayed for an at- large bid. No dice.

Next year, we won State again and Bill won Footlocker South.

Moral of story?

We,as coaches are here for the kids, not the converse.

As a team experience, NTN is nonpareil; for the individual, Footlocker is historic.

You will live in time as a FL finalist. Who is going to remember a guy or gal who was a qualifying individual in a team-based race? That said, as a team, they will always remember that great autumn they all made it to NTN.

Glad we have both events, for they broaden the base of our sport.

Okay, I was there yesterday when McGorty annihilated the field and set a stunning course record. He made history and you can bet his team will vicariously revel in that glory. They will say "we ran with that guy" and we almost made it to NTN on the same day in the same state.

I would have done the same thing as Sean McGorty.

Good for him for making the best choice.

He can always have a party and run with the rest of the team later on, and run in races all summer if they want, but there's only one chance each year to run in the Footlocker National Championships.

It is sad that a lot of good runners are being coerced and pressured by nike, and that some of them will be missing their opportunity to run at the Footlocker meet.

This. Nice Post. Same to whomever pointed out upthread that this may have all been a result of a collective decision among McGorty and his teammates. They probably felt that they could make it without him. They very nearly did. The fact that Chantilly didn't get an at-large bid and that the races were held the same day is likely explained by the usual sort of small minded political jackasses who get to make decisions at Nike. This feels like a case of Nike trying to muscle FL. It's athletes who suffer. If I'm right then it's all kinds of ironic that Nike so closely aligns itself with the spirit of Prefontaine who campaigned against these sorts of machinations. Organizations who say they're devoted to the development of a sport should be loyal too to the development of its athletes - and, thus, should make it easy for athletes to compete as much and wherever they like. /Rant

J.R. wrote:

It is sad that a lot of good runners are being coerced and pressured by nike, and that some of them will be missing their opportunity to run at the Footlocker meet.

Max,

I just don't understand how you feel this way?

How does Nike coerce people any more than you?

You bash anyone and everyone who chooses NXN over your race. You and I both know that you have personally called coaches and pressured them to come back to FLS.

The truth is this: if you are a top individual on a lousy team, then you should go to Footlocker. If your team has a shot at qualifying, NXN is just as good if not a better experience than Footlocker. You should go to NXN regional.

If you just want a post season PR meet then the NXN regional is a far better experience.

He screwed his team. FL does not attract the best runners. Look at NY- the teams have great runners, they go to Nike. Mary Cain was at Nike (I don't want to hear about Salazar).

Many people who go to FL pick it because it's watered down with all the best runners going to Nike.

I can't believe someone would be this selfish.

Feel bad for his teammates.

runn wrote:

He screwed his team. FL does not attract the best runners. Look at NY- the teams have great runners, they go to Nike. Mary Cain was at Nike (I don't want to hear about Salazar).

Many people who go to FL pick it because it's watered down with all the best runners going to Nike.

FL does not attract the best runners? Pretty sure I saw Cheserek in the Foot Locker results.

Bottom line:

People who care about the sport should want everyone to run NXN.

Most stars on elite teams aren't going to abandon their teammates for Footlocker, and it's not really conceivable schedule-wise to avoid the overlaps between NXN and Footlocker.

As long as there are split fields, there is no high school XC individual championship.

seasoned ranker wrote:

runn wrote:

He screwed his team. FL does not attract the best runners. Look at NY- the teams have great runners, they go to Nike. Mary Cain was at Nike (I don't want to hear about Salazar).

Many people who go to FL pick it because it's watered down with all the best runners going to Nike.

FL does not attract the best runners? Pretty sure I saw Cheserek in the Foot Locker results.

FL attracted the best boys runner (singular) this year and last year.

In terms of attracting potential All-Americans, it is pretty evenly split. More in the Footlocker South region have been opting for Footlocker, while most in the rest of the nation have been leaning towards Nike. Neither meet has a monopoly on the best runners in the nation.

In the end, it all comes down to three things: (#1) Where is the best competition, (#2) which will have the best experience (both in terms of how you are treated, the weather during your stay, what you can do during your stay, etc.), and (#3) how accessible the regional is (the closer schedule-wise to your state meet, the better; the closer to where you live, the easier it is to make the trip, and thus that choice seems like the better one). For the vast majority of the nation, #3 is in Nike's favor and #2 will be Footlocker if you need pristine weather, or else a toss-up as both treat the athletes well. #1 is split and is more of a yearly-basis issue.

QTPi wrote:

Bottom line:

People who care about the sport should want everyone to run NXN.

Most stars on elite teams aren't going to abandon their teammates for Footlocker, and it's not really conceivable schedule-wise to avoid the overlaps between NXN and Footlocker.

As long as there are split fields, there is no high school XC individual championship.

Ha! I'll take the history and execution of Foot Locker every time. It is the high school cross country individual championship. I know how many of my teammates ran at Foot Locker. I have no idea, nor do I care, how many ran at NXN.

J.R. wrote:

It is sad that a lot of good runners are being coerced and pressured by nike, and that some of them will be missing their opportunity to run at the Footlocker meet.

mundus vult decipi wrote:

Max????

Idk who max is, and I have no involvement with the Footlocker meets.

I like the footlocker meet because they put it on solely for the best young runners in the country. That's how their meet started and that's how it continues. In their favor, they remain oblivous to the constant nitpicking and trolling by nike - good for them.

I wouldn't mind nike so much if they just minded their business and held their team meet every year, and if they did it for the kids, but that's obviously not the case.

Van--Of course, that year my team beat yours and did go to Portland, which was an unforgettable experience for me, the boys, and their parents. That year my number one runner won NXN-SE and would likely have made FLN, given that he ran about a 191 speed rating. He made that choice and never seemed to waver--the team came first. I've always valued that decision of his--thought it displayed a great deal of understanding of what a team is about.Ultimately, though, those decisions came down to the boys, their families, and their coaches. It was not Joe Q. Public's choice to make. It's the same with Chantilly, and it's a shame there's a thread dedicated to questioning the kid's choice--and his team's choice.AE

Also worth mentioning is that the winner of the girls race at FLS was on a team that was up at ntn reg meet as well, had she run they would almost certainly had made it to Portland. Slightly different case as her team came into the region meet as big underdogs to the two favored teams.

Very tough positions to be in which I imagine will only increase the calls for one meet.

J.R. wrote:

Idk who max is, and I have no involvement with the Footlocker meets.

I like the footlocker meet because they put it on solely for the best young runners in the country. That's how their meet started and that's how it continues. In their favor, they remain oblivous to the constant nitpicking and trolling by nike - good for them.

I wouldn't mind nike so much if they just minded their business and held their team meet every year, and if they did it for the kids, but that's obviously not the case.

If you aren't Max Mayo then I need you to tell me if you are being serious? I honestly can't tell.

I would like to see NXN take over as the sole race so there can be an undisputed national champion, and because Nike has proven they can put on a hell of a show. But I can't help but feel that all the stuff they do for the kids there is purely because they're trying to coax everyone away from Footlocker.

There's also the problem of the course. The muddy mess makes the race seem kind of gimmicky. It's trying too hard at the "we're so tough because we run xc" kind of image. I know it's for marketing so they can use pictures of muddy runners in their adverts, but if they want to become the serious individual race then they need to move to a standard xc course like runners will see at every other major championship.

byjb wrote:

But I can't help but feel that all the stuff they do for the kids there is purely because they're trying to coax everyone away from Footlocker.

Jeez, it's like they're trying to run a business or something.

byjb wrote:There's also the problem of the course. The muddy mess makes the race seem kind of gimmicky. It's trying too hard at the "we're so tough because we run xc" kind of image. I know it's for marketing so they can use pictures of muddy runners in their adverts, but if they want to become the serious individual race then they need to move to a standard xc course like runners will see at every other major championship.

Disagree; what should it matter whether there is mud on the course or not? You're still running about 5000m against the best of the best to see who crosses the line first. Details like whether there was mud, or if it was windy, or what the finishing time is should be irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

although, I will say that I prefer championship courses that are more variable than a simple golf course -- ones with a hill, or sand, or hay bales, or a creek, or something other than a grass track just adds to the meet because it allows for more varying strategy and a need to adapt to more situations...

Using last year's results, I took the top 10 seniors that only ran at Foot Locker and the top 10 seniors that only ran at NXN. I then looked up what their best Florating was in NCAA cross country was this year:

Footlocker

McClintock: 216.7

Fahy: 202.1

Weitz: 201.7

Graham: 201

Rog: 198.8

Ball: 189.3

Lennon: 186.2

Wilson: 182.8

Farnsworth: N/A

Bile: N/A

NXN

Guijarro: 204.1

Yorks: 196

Herriott: 178.1

Blankenbaker: 163.8

Diaz: N/A

Armstrong: N/A

Visokay: N/A

Crozier: N/A

Martinez: N/A

Erb: N/A

Now there are a lot of factors at play here, but my conclusion is that Foot Locker definitely gets bigger impact cross country runners.