Lasse Viren's training?

Dude talk to Mike Tyson about how Spinks fell down in what less then 2 minutes after tasting Tyson's gloved fist.

Hah hah! Thanks for the laugh.

sukkeli- i hate to burst your bubble, but he was one of the first dopers. this is fact. it was all around me back in those days (among other things). he had sisu, no doubt, but he also had help (which wasn't illegal at the time). don't be delusional out of pride in a countryman.

Any mention of what his max HR was? I'm curious what %age the 160 ave. HR after his 200m repeats that he was doing in around 30s was.

it was 160 avg. after each repeat and something like around 110's right before the next rep.

Jzs wrote:

Dude talk to Mike Tyson about how Spinks fell down in what less then 2 minutes after tasting Tyson's gloved fist.

In that match endurance had nothing to do with it. Spinks was old and not in very good shape. Endurance isn't everything, which is why distance runners should still do strides year round and Lydiard has his hill/anaerobic conditioning/shapening phases. But the point was made with Spinks. Long bouts of exercise will increase your muscular endurance.

born to be a bum wrote:

I remember the Finnish team pulling out of a triangular match with UK and USSR when UK announced drug testing would take place at the meet. Highly suspicious behaviour!

Drinking hard and fast is the Finnish national pastime, starts lunchtime Friday, ends Sunday pm in time to sober up for work Monday. Unless of course professional drinkers are involved, then no limits!

Ah,memories of drunken Finns.

The ferry from Goteburg, Sweden, to Turku is duty free, or at least it was 29 years ago. As the cost of drinking in either counrty was quite high due to taxes, folks would sometimes spend the whole weekend on that ferry, drinking from one shore to the next.

I recall sitting in a toilet stall with a guy in the next stall who was completely unconscious with the door unlateched. Every time the ship rocked this guy would bang into one of the walls or the door.

Once in Turku, on a Friday evening, I went out for a run and got lost. At one point I was on a footpath along a river embankment. I literally had to hurdle about a dozen unconscious drunks lying in the footpath, passed out, some lying in their own vomit. Well, I assume it was their own.

But I loved it there. The Finns, though reticent, were great once you got to know them, and there is no better place to run in the summer. And Viren, in our one encounter, seemed a really good guy. So I hesitate to say this, but I believe doping in some form was not uncommon there. I was given a chance to do it. So it\'s hard to believe that Viren didn\'t have chances, which is not to say that he did. Honestly, I don\'t know and won\'t accuse him. I\'d really like to think that he was clean. But I wasn\'t surprised when Vaino was DQed in the \'84 Olympics.

How much bureaucratic difficulty was there in moving to Finland? In the US, we tend to think of moving to another country as quite difficult to do. But it seems as though it\'s done more commonly in the rest of the world.

HRE & others,

Let's not forget that "IF" Viren did blood dope, the use of such procedures was NOT illegal at the time of his reign as the best of all time.

My bad, the "fight" took a total of 91 seconds, hahaha! Boy that Spinks had great endurance I tell you, he was just old, hahaha

JZS, I am glad you are touting my philosophy. Like pulling the chaff from the wheat, we are finding the real value of the plant. Some people will focus on aerobic power, hammering away at the mileage or intervals, but few will combine it with threshold zone work to improve stamina. The middle ground, as we have discussed on the phone, is what needs to be revitalized. For without stamina, power is never enough. Without power, stamina isn't enough. Tinman

Jzs wrote:

HRE & others,

Let's not forget that "IF" Viren did blood dope, the use of such procedures was NOT illegal at the time of his reign as the best of all time.

It wasn't blood doping that I had a chance to do. It was right out of a spy movie; a backroom in a pharmacy that not just anyone could get into.

But, Lasse wasn't there. So while I'm convinced that something was up in Finland in those days, I'm not saying that he was up to it. I gathered, from talking with those who knew him, that he loved the rumors.

Murrey...don't u have anything better to do than drool over lasse viren. i'm gonna rip that poster off your wall next time i'm in your house

PEACE

-geuss

HRE- are you american or from the uk? what years did you run? who did you run for? and yes, the ferry to turku is still duty free from goteburg. finns certainly drink like fish. very affable folks in general though as you stated.

genuine draft wrote:

lasse was/is a very congenial but private man, though i have not spoken with him in at least 20 years. however, as i said, he was and is a finn- meaning he's a cheat. finns always have been and always will be. maybe too close to russia, i suppose. !

genuine draft this post is despicable. What is discerning is that you spoke to Viren 20 years ago, so it does not mean that you are a youngster shooting their mouth off, you are just a plain arsehole who is probably subintelligent and can't make it in the real world. You come onto the boards, mostly frequented by unknowing youngsters, with your bravado. If you have children, one would need to consider whether they have any form of respect for you because for a person of your age you come across as a simple fool. nuff said

oh youngster, hardly subintelligent, i can unabashadly assure you. i tell it like it is. viren and the majority of the finns that i knew and competed against- not just spoke with- knew- were doping. on top of that, many were also taking steroids. call me what you like. i could care less. i competed against and trained with these gents time and again, sometimes coming out ahead on the track, sometimes not. i won't lie, i was tempted to taste of the forbidden fruit, but i declined and have never regreted it. in fact, i got a bit of the feeling that some of them respected me for it. again, however, in their defence, doping was not illegal at that time. bravado? ha! you've brightened my day. letting people know as fact what they blindly refuse to believe is hardly bravado. if i wanted to brag or achieve a sense of your bravado, i'd state my name. alas, only old timers such as malmo would recognize it anyway. it's a shame the profane use of drugs that occurs on the circuit today- both a and surprisingly, the b as well. unfortunately, one of my mates from the old days that i still keep up with is an agent whose name you would also recognize, keeps me abreast on the topic. it's unfortunate, as i said. to be sure, he encourages the utilization of performance enhancers in his athletes if they are so inclined. it's a business now and has strayed from what my mates and i used to slog it out for- the excitment of gritty competition and the feeling elicited after a wonderful run. i still crave the feeling. best ofluck to you, young man. don't be discouraged by all my drug talk. run because of what's inside you and express it with your legs!

HRE wrote:

But I wasn't surprised when Vaino was DQed in the '84 Olympics.

How much bureaucratic difficulty was there in moving to Finland?

Moving to Finland was easy for me, just got on the plane and went. But I was married to a Finn. Staying there was a real pain, having to renew my visa every 6 months for so long until I qualified to stay permanently.

As for Vainio, I was in a few races with him that summer, just Finnish local meets and was not at all surprised to see him DQ'd. He was racing so well so often, just didn't make sense. I was lucky to get 2-3 decent track races a season, he was doing that per week and throughout the season.

Does blood doping, boosting the iron/oxygen, really count as cheating? It is just the same as going to altitude for a few months. Sure, it goes against the spirit of true honest competition, but could hardly be classed alongside the current crop of "little helpers".

"viren and the majority of the finns that i knew and competed against- not just spoke with- knew- were doping. on top of that, many were also taking steroids."

There has always been and always will be "the thruth tellers" like you -genuine draft-.

I would like to see some proof of it. You use those kind of words, and just write that they were dopers.

How you can say that Lasse was too? I can´t say that he wasn´t a doper. It is matter of imagination and what kind of attitude you have. You write that "all the Finns" are cheaters. This kind of attitude is wrong. I admit that here in Finland has been some cheaters, but I believe not

more than anywhere else.

When the Finnish skiers were busted, then started unbelievable media-circuit and people asking how this could

be true? I hate those cheaters because of what they did.

Another myth that Viren raced very seldom is not true. He raced about 30-50 times in year. He took many races like training runs. His coach had a clear aim to train his anaerobic threshold. Without burning him down. One controlsession in the summer was 2x10x200m on the track, 200m "jog" recovery (not so slow) and 5min. between sets.

In the last this kind of session before Munich Olympic Games in 1972 his average time was 27,35sec.

It was better than ever and he knew that his training and racing programme worked. The progression in this session was nice and steady, not any dramatic boosts thanks to possible blood doping.

You guys who thinking about his training, best way to discribe it would be; consistency, discipline, and stay healthy.

Lasse´s racing strategy is what I admire very much. Get through heats so easy you can, and run minimum distance.

If you measure who was the fastest guy in the Olympic 5000 or 10000meters, many of those races it wasn´t Lasse.

genuine draft wrote:

"lasse was/is a very congenial but private man, though i have not spoken with him in at least 20 years. however, as i said, he was and is a finn- meaning he's a cheat. finns always have been and always will be. maybe too close to russia, i suppose. !"

A screen name stolen from a beer label... Yes you reek of disillusionment. If you have the ability to re-read what you wrote, you also will doubt your intelligence. If not... ah, wasting my time on something pathetic.

genuine draft wrote:

oh youngster, hardly subintelligent, i can unabashadly assure you.

through it all you still miss the point of your subintelligent bigotry behaviour. I mentioned your age because you should know better. This is what it is about

he was and is a finn- meaning he's a cheat. finns always have been and always will be

If you are an American, then you certainly do not have the room to throw a stone from your glass house inhabited by the likes of Kelly White, Regina Jacobs et al

Its the manner and arrogance which underlines a subintelligent human, what makes things even more scary is that you say you are educated, there is just plain no helping a redneck of your uppity manner who knows everything about everyone and who's word is gospel because you could run with the likes of malmo.

Hopefully, when you take your self-indulgent cape off and come down to earth you will be able to see where the offence at your post was taken. Surely not, you were able to once upon a time run, as though that entitles you certain behaviour.