Lance Armstrong-Scapegoat

Mojo Jerkin wrote:

As they have been saying ever since the days of Nixon, the cover-up is always worse than the crime.

Contrast Armstrong with Hincapie. They both were doing the same stuff at the same time. But, George came clean, explained why he did it, the regrets he has, and how he'd like to see the culture of the sport change.

Armstrong dug in, lied and lied again, and has finally been caught.

I haven't lost any respect for Hincapie. Different story for Lance.

He made himself a deserving scapegoat.

Was Armstrong offered a plea deal similar to the others? You are absolutely correct that the others came clean and Armstrong has entrenched further. But did Armstrong have another realistic option? would the conclusion have been different?

I no more respect for Hincapie than I do for Armstrong. Hincapie turned on Lance out of self preservation, not because he was morally driven.

Lance is a cheating jerk who treated his friends and employees like garbage. I am disappointed with the legal process/reach in this case.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

O.o wrote:

It may be "obvious" to say Lance was on drugs, but why is he the only target?

You guys need to move on from this argument. Bruyneel, del Moral, Celeya, Ferrari, Marti

Hincapie, Andreu, Leiphimer, Vande Velde, Zabriskie ...

If YOU want others to move on, it is obvious you were only after Armstrong. Why are the admitted dopers who testified against allowed to ride again. A DOPER is a DOPER. YOU have a different opinion than that.

As the most visible, Lance is the most important target. Feds always use the henchmen to go after the kingpin.

Why Lance? Because, the fact that Lance has been punished severely means that no one is safe just because they are important to the sport. Many many drug cheats in T&F back in the eighties and nineties got away with it for this reason. Drug use kills sport. Especially Olympic sports, but all sport. I don't know how to stop PED use, but the fact that I don't (nor probably anyone else) doesn't mean we should stop trying. Nailing Lance is a big step in the right direction.

A cheater is a cheater.

There is no point in going after Armstrong, he doesn't ride anymore.

Allowing the testifiers to ride again, almost immediately, is a step in the wrong direction.

Tygart's statement, pasted in part below, explains his view of the situation. He has stated on a number of occasions that Armstrong could have had a similar "plea bargain" as was given to the other riders. In Armstrong's case that probably would have been the loss of results in the last 8 years (including his last two TDF victories). Tygart (and others) have petitioned the UCI for a "Truth and Reconciliation" where past violations are admitted in exchange for limited "time out" sanctions. This is the philosophy USADA has followed in this case's recommended sanctions, that is, the various riders who came forward have had results removed during periods of admitted doping within the statute of limitations but have received insignificant punishment going forward.

The UCI statement really has two interesting aspects. One is that they deny the UCI corruption allegations charged by Hamilton and Landis, but they won't fight those because USADA hasn't tried to sanction UCI and probably doesn't have sufficient evidence to support that claim and won't get it unless the case goes to arbitration. The other point is that UCI states that the Armstrong sanctions should only go back 8 years under the statute of limitations, but UCI believes that it was Armstrong's responsibility to challenge this hence UCI is not going to call for arbitration. Again, the cynical view is that the UCI doesn't want this to go to arbitration because their own asses are on the line if that happens.

"This determination to uphold USADA’s decision on the U.S. Postal Services case does not by itself clean up cycling nor does it ensure the sport has moved past the obstacles that allowed doping to flourish in the age of EPO and blood transfusions. For cycling to truly move forward and for the world to know what went on in cycling, it is essential that an independent and meaningful Truth and Reconciliation Commission be established so that the sport can fully unshackle itself from the past. There are many more details of doping that are hidden, many more doping doctors, and corrupt team directors and the omerta has not yet been fully broken.

Sanctioning Lance Armstrong and the riders who came forward truthfully should not be seen as penance for an era of pervasive doping. There must be more action to combat the system that took over the sport. It is important to remember that while today is a historic day for clean sport, it does not mean clean sport is guaranteed for tomorrow. Only an independent Truth and Reconciliation Commission can fully start cycling on the path toward true reform and provide hope for a complete break from the past.”

Tygart is a fool. Plea bargin? That is like demanding someone admit murder and letting the murder go home after a weekend in jail, while a person who doesn't admit murder gets a life sentance.

Expect Tygart to run for political office in the near future. His plea bargin smells like a politician in self-training.

The nominal sanction for doping is 2 years.The WADA code allows for reducing the sentence, up to 3/4ths, for acts such as confessing without evidence, and for assistance in other doping convictions.The WADA code allows for increasing the sentence, up to a lifetime ban, in the case of aggravating circumstances, such as repeat offenses, or encouraging others to dope.A DOPER is a DOPER, tautologically undeniable, and the WADA code allows for doping sanctions ranging from 6 months to life. To get 6 months, you have to make choices to qualify. To get life, you have to make other choices to qualify. The resulting recommendation from USADA is a direct result of the athlete's choices.If you think the WADA code is unfair, this is not USADA's fault.Armstrong was the only athlete charged, as he was the only athlete questioned who did not accept the offer to cooperate with USADA's investigation.

Mr. Oblivious wrote:

Hincapie, Andreu, Leiphimer, Vande Velde, Zabriskie ...

If YOU want others to move on, it is obvious you were only after Armstrong. Why are the admitted dopers who testified against allowed to ride again. A DOPER is a DOPER. YOU have a different opinion than that.

Plea-bargaining is a fundamental and essential part of justice. Some murderers do get reduced or suspended sentences, while others get life or death. It all depends on the circumstances and context.

Travis Tor Tygart wrote:

Tygart is a fool. Plea bargin? That is like demanding someone admit murder and letting the murder go home after a weekend in jail, while a person who doesn't admit murder gets a life sentance.

Lance just had to be the greatest of all time, without the talent to back that up. So he became the greatest cheater, to get the wins he wanted.

But that was not enough.

He had to extract every penny, for his own wallet, to be extrected from his fame. For that he chose a complicated quasi-charity. He had to use the forceful lie about his doping, as the basis for his heroism, to defraud millions of cancer suffers less LUCKY than him, and anyone with a heart, and some money to spare.

That wasn't enough though.

He had to destroy everyone who dared speak up against him. He forced talented teammates to dope, so his wins would come easier on him. And when they became so good that he felt threatened, they needed to be controlled, slowed down, and eventually destroyed along with the rest.

But, that was not enough.

He had to defraud an insurance company. He could not lose after all, so he started to bet on himself. Defrauded the world for that win, and by using his fraud, defrauded the insurance, for millions. Then lied about it under oath.

But that not enough...and you get the picture....

Lance could have prevented all of this, but he couldn't. Not his nature. He is that evil. If you don't hate THAT, you must hate all that is good and wholesome.

Will he eventually come with an insanity plea (he IS a sociopath afterall) to stay out of prison?

Lance is the new Ben Johnson.

The guy who will bear the brunt for everybody else.

I have more sympathy for Ben Johnson however.

For one, Ben pretty quickly admitted it.

Lance not so much

Ben did it to himself

Lance was doing it as the leader of a team...

This sport has killed itself.

Nobody will want to sponsor this sport in the next 10 years.

It's dead...

rekrunner wrote: Plea-bargaining is a fundamental and essential part of justice.

[/quote]

The USADA uses arbitration. It is not a justice based system.

Yeah France wrote:Was Armstrong offered a plea deal similar to the others? You are absolutely correct that the others came clean and Armstrong has entrenched further. But did Armstrong have another realistic option? would the conclusion have been different?

I no more respect for Hincapie than I do for Armstrong. Hincapie turned on Lance out of self preservation, not because he was morally driven.

Lance is a cheating jerk who treated his friends and employees like garbage. I am disappointed with the legal process/reach in this case.

Perhaps Lance had opportunity to plea bargain in exchange for telling on the UCI or any other organization which may have protected him.

Hwbssxiuxwd wrote:

This sport has killed itself.

Nobody will want to sponsor this sport in the next 10 years.

It's dead...

Wrong.

Sponsoring a cycling team is some of the best marketing the sponsorship dollar can buy.

Teams that are known and mentioned principally by the name of their key sponsor.

Massive affluent supporter bases.

Far, far more exposure than any dollar spent on a track athlete outside.

Travis Tor Tygart wrote:

The USADA uses arbitration. It is not a justice based system.

The U.S. court system apparently disagrees with you.

When Lance was in the middle of his comeback, I thought that there was no way that he was a doper. My evidence was that he would not be stupid enough to dope a second time and jeopardize his wins and legacy.

Does anyone remember if Tour de France was broadcast in the US prior to Lance? I remember watching it on OLN as a kid.

I read Hincapie's testimony. I am not agreeing with the choices he made, but given the state of cycling and his career at the time, I can understand them.

He came clean in his own mind years ago. He didn't drop dime on Lance until backed into a corner himself, and again, while I might not agree with that, I can understand not wanting to rat out a teammate and friend.

I don't think all cheaters should be painted with the same broad brush.

None of it diminishes my interest in the Tour. I think the only way I don't watch it in the future is if Phil Liggett retires.

According to Google, ABC's Wide World of Sports first covered the TDF in 1975. I remember watching coverage during the Lemond years. These were delayed and heavily edited version of the race to fit into a weekend time slot similar to the "plausibly live" coverage the Olympics got on NBC prime time the last go round.

Tor wrote:

Travis Tor Tygart wrote:

The USADA uses arbitration. It is not a justice based system.

The U.S. court system apparently disagrees with you.

Nope, only you, Travis, disagree.

what does it matter wrote:

Um, ever heard of Barry Bonds?

Millions and millions of dollars and resources wasted to accomplish NOTHING.

A ton was accomplished.

Most importantly a cheat's titles were taken off the record books. The idea has been established even if you are Lance Armstrong, super sophisticated with a ton of resources, we will try and catch you. That is a huge win for clean sport.

Secondly, that cheat is going to face quite a few legal problems going forward making cheats in the future think twice.

Thirdly, that cheat's biggest sponsor (and then all his other sponsors) dropped him. The public has shown it won't stand behind cheats even if they believe most other people were cheating. Hopefully, it pushes Nike and others to be more proactive on the anti-doping front.

Fourth, despite Lance's claims, USADA's validity as the anti-doping agency in the US has been reaffirmed.