Ritz 9th in 2:07:47

...the president either ;-)

question for the board wrote:

Remember when Hall ran 2:04:58 in Boston and everyone dismissed his race because he finished a half mile (1:56) behind the winner? Didn't Ritz just finish further than that (3:09) behind the winner?

This isn't intended as a bash on Ritz. I'm really glad to see him make a big step forward with his marathon PR and hope he does so again in the spring. This is a question for this board. I root for all our American distance runners. Hall would have gotten bashed for being out of contention in this race.

Hall is vastly more accomplished than Ritz at the marathon distance. As such, in the marathon far more is expected of Hall than of Ritz.

What exactly is confusing about this?

question for the board wrote:

This is a question for this board. I root for all our American distance runners. Hall would have gotten bashed for being out of contention in this race.

They'll never be happy with anything. Ritz is criticized for not being a factor in the race and not being up with Kebede, one of the two or three best marathon runners in the world right now. If Ritz stuck with Kebede as long as possible and died a horrible death, he'd be called stupid and arrogant. If the race unfolded in such a way (poor conditions, for example) that he won in a time of something like 2:10, his win would be discredited as not being a real judge of ability ("anyone can win that slow"). If he finished top three in a really quick time, he'd be criticized for not winning. And if he won in a really fast 2:04, he'd be accused of being on drugs (more than he is currently).

And all this doesn't just apply to Ritz. It's everyone. They'll buy an American running 3:33 for ninth in Rome, but do much better than that, and somehting fishy's going on. There's no winning over these people. They're short-sighted, negative, complete and total dicks.

You would've had me convinced if you'd used just a couple more exclamation marks.

POTM.

Please do not try to reshape my argument. I never once said that he was using drugs. I never once complained about how far back from the leaders he was. I never once made a cooment on not going out harder.

I criticized his words. The QOTD is completely out of touch. He faded much worse than the leaders and now thinks he is in position to go out harder. Pointing out his stupidity does not make me less of a fan.

Just wanted to state "Good for you Ritz!" You stuck with it while things were tough. Injuries consistently and still had the ability to bounce back and finally hit a good marathon. I didn't think you had the ability to do it but glad you did. I hope you get the chance to stay healthy and really get after one in another year or so.

serious response wrote:

I criticized his words. The QOTD is completely out of touch. He faded much worse than the leaders and now thinks he is in position to go out harder. Pointing out his stupidity does not make me less of a fan.

He thinks he can improve his marathon training and racing performance. This is necessarily the attitude of a top level competitor whether it be self-delusion or not. Keep in mind that the guy had been "humbled by the marathon" half a dozen times prior to this and he's dusted himself off and tried again each time.

A couple things about Ritz. I think he has matured a lot the last few years in his approach to his racing. He no longer takes his marathons out at an unrealistic 14:37 for the first 5k. He recognizes that he needs to stay in touch with his track speed as he has said he will focus on cross and the WC in track next year, running only a fall marathon, and if he can stay healthy while training with Olympic gold and silver medalists, he still has upside. I would like to see him even-split or negative split a marathon. I don't know that the guy will ever go 2:04-2:05, but holding that 1:03:25 half-marathon pace for the whole race is probably realistic. And, as previous posters have pointed out, the Olympics are a crap shoot. An American with a PR over 2:09 has a silver medal. Anything is possible with a healthy Ritz. But, it's impressive the guy is still running at a high level, given how long he has been running and the beating his legs took in high school (6 quality days per week).

Citizen Runner wrote:

serious response wrote:

I criticized his words. The QOTD is completely out of touch. He faded much worse than the leaders and now thinks he is in position to go out harder. Pointing out his stupidity does not make me less of a fan.

He thinks he can improve his marathon training and racing performance. This is necessarily the attitude of a top level competitor whether it be self-delusion or not. Keep in mind that the guy had been "humbled by the marathon" half a dozen times prior to this and he's dusted himself off and tried again each time.

I agree. It was fairly obvious in reading Ritz' quote that he thinks with another solid year of uninterrupted training (i.e. injury free), that he can improve on this time & be closer to the leaders. Ritz of all US distance guys - knows his limits & that was fairly obvious in this race. If this next year of training continues to go well & he thinks he can go with the leaders next year at Chicago, then that is what he will do. I highly doubt Ritz is delusional or out of touch with reality, especially for a guy that typically races smart & controlled. With Ritz getting injured so much in the past, I don't think anybody really knows how much Ritz will improve over the next year if he can remain injury free.

He had a great run. He went 2:07 which speaks for itself.

He came in over 3 minutes afer the winner. That's one km off the pace and he ended up 9th. That also speaks for itself.

He ought to be encouraged and happy, that's a PB, dammit! But a little sobriety in the face of the opposition is in order too.

B0sl wrote:

Can I ask someone here what are the following personal bests of these two athletes: Bill Rodgers and Greg Meyer?

Thank you.

have you ever heard of google?

Bill Rodgers marathon PR: 2:09:27

Greg Meyer marathon PR: 2:09 flat

Let's put Ritz's time in perspective. Here's a complete list of the Chicago Marathon's winners:

September 25, 1977 Cloeter, DanDan Cloeter United States 2:17:52 Doolittle, DorothyDorothy Doolittle United States 2:50:47

01978-09-24September 24, 1978 Stanforth, MarkMark Stanforth United States 2:19:20 Larson, LynaeLynae Larson United States 2:59:25

01979-10-21October 21, 1979 Cloeter, DanDan Cloeter United States 2:23:20 Michalek, LauraLaura Michalek United States 3:15:45

01980-09-28September 28, 1980 Richardson, FrankFrank Richardson United States 2:14:04 Peterson, SueSue Peterson United States 2:45:03

01981-09-27September 27, 1981 Coppess, PhilPhil Coppess United States 2:16:13 Gandy, TinaTina Gandy United States 2:49:39

01982-09-26September 26, 1982 Meyer, GregGreg Meyer United States 2:10:59 Conz, NancyNancy Conz United States 2:33:23

01983-10-16October 16, 1983 Nzau, JosephJoseph Nzau Kenya 2:09:44 Mota, RosaRosa Mota Portugal 2:31:12

01984-10-21October 21, 1984 Jones, SteveSteve Jones United Kingdom 2:08:05^ Mota, RosaRosa Mota Portugal 2:26:01

01985-10-20October 20, 1985 Jones, SteveSteve Jones United Kingdom 2:07:13 Samuelson, Joan BenoitJoan Benoit Samuelson United States 2:21:21

01986-10-26October 26, 1986 Seko, ToshihikoToshihiko Seko Japan 2:08:27 Kristiansen, IngridIngrid Kristiansen Norway 2:27:08

01987-10-25October 25, 1987[11]

—

—

—

—

—

—

01988-10-30October 30, 1988 Cruz, AlejandroAlejandro Cruz Mexico 2:08:57 Weidenbach, LisaLisa Weidenbach United States 2:29:17

01989-10-29October 29, 1989 Davies-Hale, PaulPaul Davies-Hale United Kingdom 2:11:25 Weidenbach, LisaLisa Weidenbach United States 2:28:15

01990-10-28October 28, 1990 Pitayo, MartínMartín Pitayo Mexico 2:09:41 Cunha, AuroraAurora Cunha Portugal 2:30:11

01991-10-27October 27, 1991 Rocha, JoseildoJoseildo Rocha Brazil 2:14:33 Hamrin, MiddeMidde Hamrin Sweden 2:36:21

01992-10-25October 25, 1992 de Souza, José CesarJosé Cesar de Souza Brazil 2:16:14 Somers, LindaLinda Somers United States 2:37:41

01993-10-31October 31, 1993 dos Santos, Luíz AntônioLuíz Antônio dos Santos Brazil 2:13:14 Lemettinen, RitvaRitva Lemettinen Finland 2:33:18

01994-10-30October 30, 1994 dos Santos, Luíz AntônioLuíz Antônio dos Santos Brazil 2:11:16 Johnston, KristyKristy Johnston United States 2:31:34

01995-10-15October 15, 1995 Martin, EamonnEamonn Martin United Kingdom 2:11:18 Lemettinen, RitvaRitva Lemettinen Finland 2:28:27

01996-10-20October 20, 1996 Evans, PaulPaul Evans United Kingdom 2:08:52 Sutton, MarianMarian Sutton United Kingdom 2:30:41

01997-10-19October 19, 1997 Khannouchi, KhalidKhalid Khannouchi Morocco 2:07:10 Sutton, MarianMarian Sutton United Kingdom 2:29:03

01998-10-11October 11, 1998 Osoro, OndoroOndoro Osoro Kenya 2:06:54 Chepchumba, JoyceJoyce Chepchumba Kenya 2:23:57

01999-10-24October 24, 1999 Khannouchi, KhalidKhalid Khannouchi Morocco 2:05:42^ Chepchumba, JoyceJoyce Chepchumba Kenya 2:25:59

02000-10-22October 22, 2000 Khannouchi, KhalidKhalid Khannouchi United States 2:07:01 Ndereba, CatherineCatherine Ndereba Kenya 2:21:33

02001-10-07October 7, 2001 Kimondiu, BenBen Kimondiu Kenya 2:08:52 Ndereba, CatherineCatherine Ndereba Kenya 2:18:47^

02002-10-13October 13, 2002 Khannouchi, KhalidKhalid Khannouchi United States 2:05:56 Radcliffe, PaulaPaula Radcliffe United Kingdom 2:17:18^

02003-10-12October 12, 2003 Rutto, EvansEvans Rutto Kenya 2:05:50 Zakharova, SvetlanaSvetlana Zakharova Russia 2:23:07

02004-10-10October 10, 2004 Rutto, EvansEvans Rutto Kenya 2:06:16 Diţă-Tomescu, ConstantinaConstantina Diţă-Tomescu Romania 2:23:45

02005-10-09October 9, 2005 Limo, FelixFelix Limo Kenya 2:07:02 Kastor, DeenaDeena Kastor United States 2:21:25

02006-10-22October 22, 2006 Cheruiyot, Robert KipkoechRobert Kipkoech Cheruiyot Kenya 2:07:35 Adere, BerhaneBerhane Adere Ethiopia 2:20:42

02007-10-07October 7, 2007 Ivuti, PatrickPatrick Ivuti Kenya 2:11:11 Adere, BerhaneBerhane Adere Ethiopia 2:33:49

02008-10-12October 12, 2008 Cheruiyot, EvansEvans Cheruiyot Kenya 2:06:25 Grigoryeva, LidiyaLidiya Grigoryeva Russia 2:27:17

02009-10-11October 11, 2009 Wanjiru, SamuelSamuel Wanjiru Kenya 2:05:41 Shobukhova, LiliyaLiliya Shobukhova Russia 2:25:56

02010-10-10October 10, 2010 Wanjiru, SamuelSamuel Wanjiru Kenya 2:06:23 Shobukhova, LiliyaLiliya Shobukhova Russia 2:20:25

02011-10-09October 9, 2011 Mosop, MosesMoses Mosop Kenya 2:05:37 Shobukhova, LiliyaLiliya Shobukhova Russia 2:18:20

02012-10-07October 7, 2012 Kebede, TsegayeTsegaye Kebede Ethiopia 2:04:38 Baysa, AtsedeAtsede Baysa Ethiopia 2:22:03

Ritz's time yesterday wins every year from the inaugural race in 1977 until Khannouchi wins in 1997, except for Steve Jones's 2:07:13 in 1985.

His time yesterday wins him the race only twice since then, except one of those times was the very warm year of 2007 (if I'm not wrong). So essentially he's out of it from '97 on.

Bill Rodgers marathon PR: 2:09:27

Greg Meyer marathon PR: 2:09 flat

Those are both Boston times. What are their respective PRs?

Recall David Morris? He also ran 209 at Chicago; Both his 5k and 10k pr's are nearly 1 minute slower than Dathan's. His high 207 yesterday is a good run, nothing more or less. Good to see him health enough to run a good marathon time.

Time will tell; his recovery and prep for another XC season and outdoor track or another trip to the surgeon and scheduling physical therapy

You guys still haven't convinced me that a 2 plus minute pr is not an improvement. Had he run this time at Boston I would agree but Chciago is a fair course. I do agree with your points about "going out with the leaders". I hope Al sets him straight and they work on the second half of his next marathon not going out harder the first half.

One observation that was pointed out was just how consistent he was from the start through 35km. He fell off the pace the last 7km, and would have finished at 2:07 flat if he could have kept it up.

I agree, he needs to work on that last 7k not on going out with the leaders. As I recall that's what got him in trouble the year he ran 2:10 in London. I think he went out in 14:40 for the first 5k and paid for it.

A great PR for Ritz and a step forward. But in the new generation of marathoners, you have to be capable of sub 2:05 to be at the top levels. A sub 2:05 was a world record 10 years ago. Now it is commonplace. It is amazing how much progress has been made in the marathon in a short amount of time.