The big three.. Kinda (Webb, Ritz, Hall)

1.) Ritz - more Olympic teams at different distances than the other two, a bronze in the WC half, 6th at the WC 10,000, former 5,000 AR holder, former American 10,000 collegiate record holder, world junior cross bronze, three-time winner of US cross country championships, unbelievable range from an 8:11 two-mile (same as Webb), 12:56 5,000, 1:00:00 half, to a 2:09:55 marathon. 9th in Olympic marathon ahead of Hall. Just an all-around more versatile runner, despite being injured most of the time. Would've likely made this year's Olympic marathon team ahead of Abdi if he had negative split.

2.) Hall - 2:04:58*, 2:06:17, sub-60 min half, two Olympic appearances, consistent 2:08-2:09 marathoner in all other marathons.

3.) Webb - 1:43-27:34 range, AR holder in mile, one Olympic appearance, but pretty much a flash in the pan. He might be the only one of the three who ends up having an AR for a long time though, unless Wheating fulfills his potential.

Rupp will end up being the greatest of them all...

douglas burke wrote:

wasnt teg in the same high school graduating class of 2001?

Year before.

He got 4th behind Ritz at Junior World XC while at Wisco.

Ritz was also the only winner of an NCAA cross championship I believe off of an abbreviated base.

One way of thinking about it is who would beat whom at his best.

Ritz would beat Hall at every distance below marathon.

Ritz would beat Webb in a non-championship race at every distance above 2M or maybe even above the mile.

Ritz has two world medals, the others have none.

Webb's greatness was short-lived, but his star sure shone brightly and he even beat Ritz at 10k and at the time had a better 5k pr as well. Had Webb been able to stay healthy for a few more years, he might own a few more American records and have some world medals, but then Ritz has rarely stayed healthy for very long. Hall is a terrific marathoner but has no titles, other than one Olympic Trials and other than his first half marathon, which was great, has not run any other good races as a pro.

1.Ritz 3:42/8:11/12:56/27:22 (but could have dropped way under that in a fast Euro race later that year, had there been one)/60:00 (in a championship race, actually 59:59)/2:09:55

2.Webb 1:43.8/3:30/3:46.9/8:11/13:10/27:35

3.Hall 3:42.7 (hs)/13:16(?)/28ish/59:43/2:06:17

Tough call. Evaluating based on current careers since graduating high school, I think Ritz would have to be #1. Webb/Hall is a tough call though. I'd probably have to give it to Webb for his US titles over Hall's major marathon record. I think Hall still has a few good races in him left to threaten for #2, whereas I think Webb's good races are behind him.

Linsanity wrote:

douglas burke wrote:

wasnt teg in the same high school graduating class of 2001?

Year before.

He got 4th behind Ritz at Junior World XC while at Wisco.

5th

1.Hall

2.Ritz

3.Webb

Based on wife hotness scale.

Someone already threw this criteria out there, but I want to keep it going - $$ money $$.

Why? First, because in some ways it is a measure of competitiveness. High quality athletes will gravitate to the big bucks, so events with larger prizes are more competitive. Major marathons, for example, don't have to limit the number of East Africans the way we do in global championships.

Also when it comes to appearance fees and shoe contracts, the higher dollar amounts often go to the more accomplished athletes. So Webb missing the '08 and '12 Olympics really hurts his bottom line. There is correlation between money and competitive accomplishment.

Then of course there is the direct connection - prize money. You place high, you win money.

So that's my pitch for using money as the deciding factor. It measures depth of competition, direct accomplishment in the form of prize money, and then indirect accomplishment in that good performances lead to better endorsements and appearance fees.

The question is how do we measure the lifetime earnings of the Big Three?

It really depends on which time period you give the most weight to.

Early on it would be Webb. Yes, Ritz had the best collegiate career, but Webb was a brighter star those years.

2006 to now it has to be Hall. Ritz has had good performances in world champs no doubt, but Hall successfully stepped up to the marathon - that is where the money is - translation that is where the east African comp is.

Going into London, I feel like this is it for Ritz - he is on the back end of his career. His 10k qualification was only because he failed in marathon and he got lucky with the race to get the A standard. He tried to go up to marathon and it hasn't worked out, now he is going to get back to the track? I don't see it.

Hall really has another 7 - 9 years to win a major marathon / olympic medal. The other two are done.

Hall

Ritz

Webb

This is the best post so far on all this. My only comments would be that I wouldn't QUITE call Webb a flash in the pan...he's been a BIT better (for long enough) than that, but I get what you're saying; disappointing that he's been so hot and then cold. I agree that Ritz gets to be ahead of Hall, but man, that is SOOOO close. One stellar race from Hall could change that.

Lagat Meb Centro

Does the fact that Ryan Hall is a house hold name mean anything? I can't turn on the TV or open a magazine without seeing and advertisement that features him. Even my Dad knows who Ryan Hall is, and that man has never jogged a step in his life. Success can be measured in many ways. Since there seems to be a general agreement that Rtiz and Hall are very close in ranking, could fame/publicity push Hall over the top as the most successful...?

In my humble oppion (which likely isn't worth the time spent to write this post), Webb has the best times, as compared to national competition. Ritz has had the most success at international competitoin level (world championships/Olympics). And Hall the most famous (not to take away from his running accomplishments).

It's very similar to the Kobe v. Lebron debate (I know Kobe is 5 years older and not from the same HS class). Chapionships v. Statistic v. Fame. Which carries the most wieght?

I would say Ritz just off his medal at the world half championships and his making of olympic teams on the track and in the Marathon as well as his early collegiate success. Hall and Webb are really tied for me. They are also really specialized in the latter half of their careers or the majority ex:Marathon for hall and Mile/1500 for webb. I think Ritz's ability to go up and down needs to be taken into account. I don't think hall could contest a 10k against Ritz.

Webb should train with Hall and run 'thons

Great thread.

I will go against the flow and go Webb, Hall, Ritz.

Even though Webb has had more uneven periods, his mile record trumps everything else. Virtually everyone on letsrun would want to be the mile record holder. A close second is Hall because of his Boston result. But if Ritz runs 26:50 for 5th or 6th in London...

It's funny because say 5 years ago, this ranking order would be different. I think most of you are forgetting that the Mile is a premier event and Webb's record will probably stand for another 15 years or so before someone else comes along like that.

Food for thought - Of that class, the guy who has the highest finish in WC or OG competition is Teg, w/ his 4th place finish in WC 5k '07 (JUST missing out on bronze).

In junior XC, Teg got 5th at worlds. He has made every National team since 2007 (aka 2 Olympic teams and 3 WC teams) and is the American record holder at 2 miles. His 5k PR is only a couple ticks off of Ritz' as he is also under 13min.

He's quiet, but has been equally if not more impressive than Ritz/Webb/Hall at various times. The only reason he is not in the discussion is that he was a step off in HS, and has not won a significant national race except USA indoor 3k once, which doesn't mean a whole lot.

Can you make a serious argument saying that his pro career is any less illustrious on big stages? His 'downfall' is that he just doesn't race that often. I submit that he could be considered equally as good/better than the 'big 3' of his class using the common metrics.

edit: I quickly realized that I said he was in the same class but he's a year their senior.

Argument still holds.

Baller

Ritz

Hall

Webb

Talent

Webb

Ritz Hall

Likability

Ritz

Webb

Hall

Kick my ass sign

Webb

Hall

Ritz [no]

Being an Airhead

Webb

Hall

Ritz gets a pass

IMveryHO