Its not Rocket Science why Webb is struggling, i can see it why cant he and Vig?

Honest assessment on Webb wrote:

Webb is running like he doesn't have achilles tendons. He gets no bounce in his step. Almost like he has no lower legs that function.

But he had absolutely no bounce in his step at all.

I was thinking the same thing. Look at the change in his mechanics. No spring action, not on his toes, long ground contacts and lots of extra rotation.

Showing signs of just being flat all over.

reading this post gave me a thought. Could it be possible that Webb has something like compartment syndrome in his calves? That would explain his lack of speed and 'bounce'. I had compartment syndrome 3 years ago and that was exactly how it felt for me. No pain, just a flatness that was hard to pin down.

12 years of having every single action scrutinized by the people that should be his fans has finally caught up with him.

Obviously Vig knows that having a base is very good. When Webb went to Vig, Webb was hurt and 20 lbs overweight. They had to do a crash course in training to try to get in the Olympics. It was a longship but worth it because it is the Olympics. Oh well, didnt work out.

Now that they have time, getting a base is just what Vig will do with Webb.

All year long, he looked so uncomfortable and tight, especially in his upper body. He never was a graceful runner but he didn't look nearly this rough. Choppy, flat, just the worst.

I hope he doesn't race again this summer and instead takes some time to get healthy and rebuild.

He seemed confident in his workouts and was clearly frustrated that 3:37 was the best he could muster. Even getting to that point after being so overweight and unfit is pretty remarkable, and off of a current ~1:50 800m ceiling no less.

It was refreshing to see that interview. A year of uninterrupted training will do wonders for him. I hope the kid helps him chill out. That's the biggest issue and even he finally seems willing to admit it.

European wrote:

"Besides, go tell Seb Coe and his 2 gold medals that he needed to build a big base. There's more than one way to skin the proverbial cat for milers"

Seb ran way more miles than most people think. The reason for that is that he always only mention the quality miles...

I've always suspected this and it is good to hear someone else say it. Coincidentally, I used to run with a runner from England and he didn't count his jogging to/from work which added 20+ to his weekly mileage.

Diamond5 wrote:

His problem is a lack of leg speed velocity.

The dude runs like he has a load in the back of his shorts.

Webb's problem could be a little bit of everything mentioned or none of it. I assure you that no one on this board understand Webb better than his coach or Webb himself. Lack of speed, lack of base; I don't buy any of that, those things might make sense if he ran 13:30x and lost out in a foot race to the finish line. Nothing Webb has done this year or last year suggest he would not make the 5k final. A guy who ran 3:37 a couple of weeks ago should not have bombed the way he did. Webb and Vig would not have even entered the 5k if they thought 14:01 was a possibility. From the outside looking in, my guess and i is just a guess and this is Webb has some deep psychological issues which prevents him form performing at his best when it really counts, which we have seen on many occassion through out his career.

Please get over yourself, you know NOTHING that Vig doesn't know. Vig knows Webb didn't hsve a base, he was THERE throughout it all when Webb was INJURED. Webb started jogging in like August, then missed another few months until Nov when he really started up again. It wasn't intentional that he didn't have a base.

Vig knows everthign you just said, and so does pretty much everyone on here. Thanks captain obvious.

There's plenty on his season and Vig's thoughts in this article

TrackCoach wrote: Webb and Vig would not have even entered the 5k if they thought 14:01 was a possibility.

From what i read it wasn't that 14:01 wasn't a possibility, it was that the race was 14+ pace, then Webb tried to go with them and ran a 59, and then a 67 last lap (probably gave up a bit after completely losing it). A 2:06 closing 800 in that manner isn't that unbelievable for Webb based on what he's done. That he couldn't close in 1:53 like the winners does not surprise me since he has only run 1:51 this year. They went, he tried to go, he couldnt' and faded badly.

If Webb wanted to have a chance at making the final he should have pushed the pace and tried for a 13:35ish type time. Either way he wasn't making the team.

Webb had no base as they mention in the article i posted. He made rapid improvement as he was coming back from almost no running and losing weight, and probably got burnt out a bit. Vig knew it was a tall task to accomplish with little training under him, but what choice did they have ya know? At some point the improvements end and your lack of base catch up to you. If he stays healthy, and starts preparing for next year he'll do some great things.

Even track laymen saw this disaster in the making. Even I didn’t' expect 14:01, which is an adequate D3 time. In many respects 2012 has been his worse as a professional runner. Scott and Spivey ran faster at 35!

If he can run a 3:55 mile that would be fine now. What else can you expect?

Diamond5 wrote:

His problem is a lack of leg speed velocity.

No no no! His legs are moving really fast. His body is moving slow though. That is the problem.

I think Letsrun message board should coach Webb. He can start by posting his running journal so we can nitpick it and figure out what is lacking in his training.

Nope. Everyone has a shelf life and AW's has since passed. He had early success against the clock; which does not translate to success later on in life. If he started to "cycle" he may be able still run some fast times- he will never be a great championship racer on the World Stage however. He just doesn't have the mind or soul for it. He can't change gears like the great ones do either.

Like many of those who ran fast early; they never got much better or faded away rather quickly. Webb had a fairly long 7 year window from 2000-2007. He was a good time trial runner, never really a great racer on the world stage. To no fault of his own he could not really be competive with the EPO driven runners whom have dominated the sport since the inception of drugs to enhance performance.

His 3 strikes 1.)No EPO 2.)sub par closing speed needed to win championships races 3.)Not a tactical bone in his body.

jimmymango wrote:

Hanging over all of this is Webb's overcompetitiveness/impatience. Forget base mileage and coaching changes. I just think Webb can't get out of his own way mentally. Read "Sub 4:00" and you'll hear everything you need to. He seems plagued by self-doubt and if Raczko, who coached Webb from his freshman year of high school to his greatest professional achievements (minus Webb's stint at Michigan), couldn't rein him in, then no one but Webb is going to be able to.

I still think Webb can get back to a competitive level of fitness and have late-career successes, but in order to do it he's going to have to give himself over entirely to Vig or another coach, trust in their methods and long-term plans, and ride out the rest of his career with them. Not sure he can make the mental commitment, but I hope he does.

If Webb enjoys running and training and the life as much as he does getting attention he could come back. I don't know if that is the case with him. I don't envy his pressure and expectations. Jim Spivey was a great young runner and missed the team in 1988, got his contract cut back from Nike to 45k and came back and won the trials in 1992 at age 31. And still ran 13:15 for 5000 at age 35. Webb from the minute after he broke Ryun's high school record was in the spotlight and never could accept losing. That was his biggest problem in his career. I don't think he will ever improve his best times in the 800 or 1500 but I would hate to see him quit right now.

This forum is such a f#cking joke.

As I watched Webb race on Monday I thought: If he was going to end up running the 5000 why didn\'t he stay with Salazar. I don\'t believe he really ever gave that a chance to workout.

[quote]wish i never found it wrote:

This forum is such a f#cking joke.[/quote)

And yet here YOU are!

Your a f$cking joke!