KENYA and DOPING

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Why? Because it would move non-Africans up in the world of distance running and they don't want that to happen?

East Africa is always going to be dominant in distance running. At least in terms of numbers.

They're not dominant because of doping. (although you howlers like to pretend that people who realise there is doping in EA believe that this is the case.)

You catch 20 dopers in Kenya and many more take their place at the front. Both clean and not-clean runners.

The IAAF know this. Their best option is to keep the sanctity of East African distance running as it is. Squeaky clean, happy smiley, slight backward innocent African guys doing what they do naturally. This is how the casual fan sees it.

You catch a few people and then the casual fans will see things differently. They see a corrupt system. They're better off keeping things completely 'clean'. European/American runners are not going to start winning stuff if they cleaned up Kenya.

But that doesn't make any sense. Top American and European stars with much more name recognition than any Kenyan runner are busted. If what you're saying were true, then the Americans and Europeans who actually generate media interest and revenue would get the free pass, not the next Kenyan to come off the bus.

The consideration that other countries would have high end athletes who dope and Kenya would not is idiotic.

I would like to say that I completely agree with Renato. While it is possible some Kenyan athletes may be doping, I think that a lot of the time people cannot believe that success is due to simply hard work and dedication. I think the American mentality is that there is no way athletes can be running such times so consistently and with so many athletes and they are not satisfied with the answers being given.

I feel so many times people always have to have the secret, what it the secret to the Kenyan's success? And it is funny, because there is no secret. The Kenyan mentality is to run hard so they can make a living for their family. It is not programmed in the mentality of a Kenyan that they can blood dope or take EPO.

While Americans may think of ways they can improve illegally, Kenyans think that the pathway to success is simply running harder and working harder. And it is this mentality which they have from a young age which allows Kenyans to have success. If Americans could simply accept that the Kenyans got their success by hard work and dedication, and not by blood doping and EPO(because Americans often think they work hard but in reality are not really willing to push themselves to the brink and give it their all because many Americans do not want to leave the comfortable zone in workouts and this is because Americans live comfortably from a young age, but we do not consider that their are people in the world who do not live so combfy, and are willing to give up everything to pursue a sport which could free them from poverty).

-Young Distance Runner

Jeff Wigand wrote:

But that doesn't make any sense. Top American and European stars with much more name recognition than any Kenyan runner are busted. If what you're saying were true, then the Americans and Europeans who actually generate media interest and revenue would get the free pass, not the next Kenyan to come off the bus.

It makes perfect sense.

The Kenyans will still win overall - but their victories will be tainted whether they're clean or not.

I'm sure their are cheating Americans and Europeans, but even when cheating they don't come close to dominating the Africans.

Do you not quite understand my point? It's not that complicated.

Busting Kenya won't stop Kenya being dominant in distance running. All it can do is tarnish the sport. It doesn't matter that nobody will have heard of the dopers they catch.

Please give me the reasons why a young, impoverished kenyan would not consider doping?

The only reasons I can think of are moral, or cost.

As we already know that they are willing to travel and compete with fraudulent ages & passports, moral reputation is considerably tarnished.

Cost is the biggest factor, but if a dodgy agent is willing to cover the expenses, then that is one less block as well.

there are hundreds upon hundreds of kenyans trying to escape poverty using running as their escape. Most westerners use running as a tool to lose weight, Kenyans by in large are trying to prevent starvation!

IF there are some using PED's, it is not so they can beat westerners, they by in large can already do that. They would be using PED's to beat each other and the Ethiopians to go after the prize money.

Sadly, it seems most PED users these days are financially driven, and do not have many prospects for earning potential after their running career is over.

Either way, Kenyans and Ethiopians are some of the best running talents in the world, and train incredibly hard. We would be foolish to just assume they are more moral or ethical than any other human on the planet. Their governments have already shown to be corrupt, so there is no reason the athletes couldn't also be corrupt. I blame the European agents coming in and taking advantage of the young and naiive.

trollism wrote:

It makes perfect sense.

The Kenyans will still win overall - but their victories will be tainted whether they're clean or not.

I'm sure their are cheating Americans and Europeans, but even when cheating they don't come close to dominating the Africans.

Do you not quite understand my point? It's not that complicated.

Busting Kenya won't stop Kenya being dominant in distance running. All it can do is tarnish the sport. It doesn't matter that nobody will have heard of the dopers they catch.

I'm not sure where you're from, but news on some Kenyan runner testing positive will not make Sports Center. The vast majority of Americans who pay attention to sports will not know that it has even happened. But I remember when Justin Gatlin got found out in 2006. It hammered home the idea that track is dirty, dirtier than the other major sports. There are thousands of pro baseball players in America and when a Manny Ramirez or an Aaron Braun comes up dirty they're the exception to the rule because they're one among thousands. When a Justin Gatlin comes up dirty, he is one of at best a handful of track athletes that the public may recognize, thus his actions represent the whole of everyone else in the public mind.

No one outside of this message board will know if John Doe Kenyan comes up with a positive test.

It's not really the American public we're talking about, it's more the European sponsorship that drives the sport.

You bust a bunch of Kenyans and all of Kenya looks bad.

The fact is, if they wanted to make a bust in Africa they would have done. It wouldn't just be one guy, it would be a whole bunch. I appreciate it's not as big as a Gatlin or a Bolt, or indeed a few baseball players, but it's big in terms of the sport of distance running.

It's better financial sense overall to maintain the myth that all Kenyan runners are purely natural.

trollism wrote:

It's not really the American public we're talking about, it's more the European sponsorship that drives the sport.

You bust a bunch of Kenyans and all of Kenya looks bad.

The fact is, if they wanted to make a bust in Africa they would have done. It wouldn't just be one guy, it would be a whole bunch. I appreciate it's not as big as a Gatlin or a Bolt, or indeed a few baseball players, but it's big in terms of the sport of distance running.

It's better financial sense overall to maintain the myth that all Kenyan runners are purely natural.

I don't see any basis for that whatsoever. European track is dying for credible medalists in the distances and you're telling me that the IAAF is assisting in Kenyan dominance?

Renato, when you pretend that AK would care about doping (or any other corruption) you make yourself look bad. I am not saying that the athletes are dirty (I know that many are certainly not), but AK isn't going to play any part in catching anyone. Unfortunately, you associate yourself with managers like Gianni who are absolutely unethical in the way they handle their business. It's hard to imagine Gianni or Dr. Rosa would not be willing to dope someone. In fact, it is rare to find a Kenyan athlete who would not say that Dr. Rosa is doping his athletes. [That is their opinion not mine.]

Sweet Jesus. This shit is just never going to end here. Renato will continue to work up righteous indignation at the very IDEA that East African runners would dope -- even though a fair number have been caught over the years. But those are all exceptions, right? Just broaden the definition of "a few" so folks can pretend that it's only a few EAs using.

By the way, Renato, yes, we get that East Africans work hard. SO does everyone at that level and this hardly precludes the possibility of doping.

Track is dirty. Might as well wake to to this and try to enjoy the show regardless.

Someone Who Knows wrote:

In fact, it is rare to find a Kenyan athlete who would not say that Dr. Rosa is doping his athletes. [That is their opinion not mine.]

Once again, as with the other thread people making things up and passing it off as factual. Which athletes have you asked about Rosa? Is it rare to find one who says this because it is rare for you to find one at all?

I have no idea how Ginni or Rosa conduct their business as I have never met either of them. So again, like in the other thread I am not saying you are necessarily wrong - only questioning why you make things up and report them as facts?

Please name the athletes who have asked about Dr Rosa in order for us to evaluate the reliability of your made up evidence

Yes,tests are weeks in these countries and continents, but their doping regiment is not as sophisticated as the American and Europeans. How about BALCO? Marion Jones was caught only by accident. She could still be holding a few Olympic golden medals and considered a legend.

If we in America ran to/from school from the age of 8 or 9, and began actually training after all those years of base, how many more Americans would be great at distance running?

Long distance running in Kenya is like baseball, basketball or football in the USA. It's the dream sport. The ideal pro athlete.

We here in America use the term; "fat and happy"

Yes, yes we are. But we will never be thin and strong like Kenyans unless something in our entire country's lifestyle changes.

Renato,

I appreciate your quick reaction to these allegations, and I can see why some of them may offend you, including the naming of individuals, without clear proof that they are guilty of anything. I also imagine that it can be difficult to brush these aside, and simply deal with the material facts. But, there are some facts:

There is at least one shop in Nairobi, called , where HGH is available off the shelf, and EPO can be bought for next-day delivery. The owner claims Makau, who lives around the corner, is a regular customer, as are many other runners (and two were in the shop when the journalists were filming undercover). Why doesn't AK know about this, and if they do, why is no action taken?

There is a doctor, who has detailed blood profiles of Pamela Jelimo, and claims he works with many other athletes (including foreigners, by the way), who also runs a doping (and drug testing) lab in his back room. Do you expect AK or WADA to question Jelimo about this, and if they identify the doctor (which should not be hard to do, you can see his practice in the video), do you expect them to launch a "Puerto" style investigation? Is there any evidence that they have already started (as far as I know, they were contacted before the broadcast)?

The IAAF medical director was quoted saying that, in 2012, there are still no blood tests done in Kenya. How is this possible? Why has there been no outcry about this?

Finally, this isn't a witch hunt about Kenyans - I am sure we all know, they would be among the best runners in the world, with or without doping. Also, clearly, doping was introduced to the sport by Europeans, and if it is happening in Kenya today, it was brought there from Europe - it would also be yet another way that the west is extracting money from Kenya. I just don't think we can be so naive as to pretend that endurance sports in Europe is full of cheats, while in Africa, it is completely clean. It's a small world.

Mick Lovin wrote:

If we in America ran to/from school from the age of 8 or 9, and began actually training after all those years of base, how many more Americans would be great at distance running?

Long distance running in Kenya is like baseball, basketball or football in the USA. It's the dream sport. The ideal pro athlete.

We here in America use the term; "fat and happy"

Yes, yes we are. But we will never be thin and strong like Kenyans unless something in our entire country's lifestyle changes.

Kenyans would never dope, just like NFL, NBA and MLB players.

The Kenyan "Police" ??? WTF! Why don't they get some of those same honest cops from Sammy's home town to investigate the "Dopers"? Why the level of incompetence, ineptitude and general ignorance there is staggering. I wouldn't trust any information and or certainly not any lab results coming out of that place! Testing should be done officially at IAAF International venues before, during and after competition and not by some bribed fool with a porta-chem kit! Believe nothing you've read!

Anybody who has been to Kenya knows that they have no scientific base to dope. Poor hospitals,and non existent medical laboratories.

East Africans have been dominating the longer end of running for a long time, they did not just come out of nowhere. did Keino dope? did Bekele dope, has Haile been doping?.

However,Anyone who spends enough time on this boards will already be aware that anyone who beats Americans is is doping and only white runners are clean despite the fact that most of the caught drug cheats are not of African origin (before you hyperventilate check

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_sport

) IAAF has a list of athletes they test every month, have a look at the list and you will see lots of Kenyans. It is not as if Kenyans are not being tested. Are there dopers in Kenya? Absolutely yes, but to paint a whole nation as systematically doping is in poor taste. But again people are just jealous and a bit racist if you ask me. Do you think in this very biased world a black person will commit a crime/break a law and be allowed to go free by white authority figures? Well Mo Farrah trained in Kenya before his current form, well he must be drugged...

The doctor in the story wanted to sell a service he was going to exaggerate his work

Air Jordan China Basketball,Football,Boots,Men's,Womens at www dot gobizdiscount88 dot com or www dot goworldsale dot com