Disrespecting Gatlin

What I don't like is Trevor Graham is an island monkey and just as Bolt was coming to prominance, Gatlin was sabotaged by the islanders.

How much money did Powell and Bolt make off the absence of Gatlin? That includes Glen Mills and Trevor Graham who are also old buddies.

http://www.alibris.com/search/books/isbn/9781158526055

Graham probably paid Whetstine, who got the TEST from Mexico off the books.

Whetstine had motive, Graham had motive, and Gatlin was a retard.

Let this be a lesson to all sprinters out there to EXTRA PRECAUTIOUS WHEN DEALING WITH THE ISLANDERS.

How much money did Jamaica make off the 08' Olympics and why did Diack turn a blind eye too it?

I believe that:

1) androgenic effects from 'roids, testosterone, etc. last for a longer time than the suspensions that they occasion

2) a whole bunch of the current top guys either are using, or have used, such substances, whether they have been caught or not

The fact that Gatlin was caught and Bolt was not, for instance, is to me a mere formality.

What bothers me is the requirement for denial. I want to see people just admit it, serve their time, and move on.

I don't see Gatlin as morally inferior in any way to either Bolt or Blake, or others--just dumber.

So as Gatlin runs faster and faster to where he's not all that far off his best from when he was a "doper"; and assuming he is clean...then what does that tell? Only 2 conclusions.

1) he truly was clean

2) drugs don't really help as much as people say they do.

Seem like a topic not really being discussed. Just a bunch of rhetoric being thrown around.

Ok so there is a 3rd that he is doping again but that would so stupid I just dismissed it.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

I don't see Gatlin as morally inferior in any way to either Bolt or Blake, or others--just dumber.

Fascinating to me how people become convinced that they just KNOW who's doping or not.

The fact is, Gatlin was cheating. I have no respect for him, regardless of the times he runs. Maybe some of the other world leaders are too, but neither I nor you know that. Innocent until proven guilty. Once proven to be a cheater... well, you're a cheater for the rest of your life, whether you like it or not.

If some dude cuts across the infield on lap 3 of the mile, you don't cheer for him just because he's back on the track for lap four.

Gatlin tested positive over 5 years ago; he has served his time; at what point does it matter that he has formally admitted to you, Wejo, that he actually took performance enhancing drugs?

BountyHunter wrote:

Gatlin tested positive over 5 years ago; he has served his time; at what point does it matter that he has formally admitted to you, Wejo, that he actually took performance enhancing drugs?

Don't speak for Wejo, but once someone dopes, I will NEVER respect them or cheer for them. It reveals their values, and I do not like or respect their values. Even if they run 9.85. So what. Cheater.

sounds like a cool band name

I'd love to know you're life story. Bet $1000 you've done something that makes you either the pot or the kettle.

i have a dream wrote:

Don't speak for Wejo, but once someone dopes, I will NEVER respect them or cheer for them. It reveals their values, and I do not like or respect their values. Even if they run 9.85. So what. Cheater.

Then you should never respect your children if they talk back to you or get in trouble in school, or get caught plagiarizing.

The Brojo's are cynical...

Gatlin came back after a 4 year ban and ran 9.87.

I have tremendous respect for that

there always the fourth theory (third if you take away your theory that he's doping again, which would be stupid to do in his case)that PED's such as testosterone or roids have long term effects that can stay with you over extended periods of time (there was an article, and still might be, on the front page about this.). so someone could argue that his previous doping gave him long term benefits.

granted, from what i gathered in the article it said there isnt a lot of evidence to support this and it is hard to test. for now it will remain what it is, a theory at best.

with all that said, if PED's do in fact not give long term effects, then you have to admit, running 9.87 after havign served his ban does say alot about the situation and his comeback. i think it's an amazing accomplishment after having been away for so long.

disclaimer: i dont know where i stand on the issue of gatlin's ban or potential doping offense, need some more information.

until i have more solid evidence that PED's do give long term effects then i'm going to have to say i'm on the comeback side of gatlin. currenlty i dont think he is using at all as that would be stupid with all the extra tests he has to do because of his ban, so i believe he is clean currently. running this fast after having served a ban makes me think though that either A) he has a long term beneift or B) he was clean to begin with

Sprinter A49 wrote:

The Brojo's are cynical...

Gatlin came back after a 4 year ban and ran 9.87.

I have tremendous respect for that

In actuallity that is amazing. After 5 years the effects of doping are 100% gone, despite what Sprint Geezer says. In fact there is plenty of evidence that after an extended period after doping the body is weaker. Also Gatlin is 30+ years old.

He has no advantage. But he still doped and he is lucky to be back.

Can't say I'm that sympathetic if Gatlin needs to endure a little disrespect on Internet running sites. Assuming the drug testers got it right and it's a fair bet they did, he cheated.

The fact that he is able to compete again on the elite level is more than enough leeway and understanding. Obviously, there is widespread discontent with the paltry two-year ban for drug cheats. Internet disrespect is the perfect venue for people to vent this frustration with the poor leadership of the sport and with people who cheat.

The problem with that is 'internet disrespect' doesn't remain on the message boards, but spills over into other media and other interactions as well.

I really have a tough time letting the Brojo's off the hook for this one; it is pure cynicism on their part that is motivating their constant use of some version of the epithet 'drug cheat' before Gatlin's name. The man has served his time--and it was time longer than most have to serve (Here, Wejo will counter by saying that was because he had 'tested positive' before; never mind that that was for adderal).

They refuse to offer any support, sympathy or praise to an athlete who could have easily walked away from the sport for any number of reasons; and the truth of the matter is that they know no more about the situation than we do.

The fact that Gatlin has kept at it and has come this far along speaks volumes in my book--if cheating is a blemish to Gatlin's ethical record (as indeed it should be), then the work Gatlin has put in should at least be set against that.

So you and "What Benefit?" believe that the "third option" of him reaching the level he has reached of 9.87 by doping again is implausible because it would be "stupid"?

What reasoning was keeping him from doping the first two times he was caught? Was it "smart" to be doping those times?

I assume Gatlin knowingly doped and considering what was at stake, is anyone surprised he denied it and tried to explain away. With that said, Gatlin and Jones did not need drugs to run fast, perhaps they would not have been as dominant, but they were good and had a bright future before cheating. Not making any excuses, but Gatlin and Jones fell into the trap of believing everybody was doping, which at the time, that was a good assumption, because a lot of the top dogs like Tim Montgomery, Dwain Chambers, Zhanna Block, Ekateríni Thánou were doping. The fact that Gatlin is running fast clean, well he ran 10 flat at age 19 and unless you think he was doping back then, you have to assume he did not need drugs to run fast then and now.

5 YEARS AGO GATLIN DOPED, HE CHEATED! …that’s a fact.

With that said, Gatlin paid a heavy price for his wrongdoings and if you think he paid a heavy enough price, take that up with the IAAF. He served his time and has managed to make a comeback and life goes on.

Factt wrote:

All of the disrespect for Justin Gatlin is disgusting. Prefacing all of his achievements (or any returning doper's for that matter) with "drug cheat" is gross. The man was railroaded by having to serve double the suspension that an athlete would normally, cooperated and has come back. In a land of forgiveness and second chances, I think Justin Gatlin deserves is exactly the same courtesy you show to Dick Beardsley, who is never prefaced with the fact that he's a convicted felon and recovering drug addict.

Gatlin was convicted for doping twice and should have been banned for life

Within the realms of running I do not care what Dick Beardsley did or did not do. He did not cheat in this sport but while you are on the subject Gatlin should have been tried under the justice system from for fraud which is alao a felon

Only an idiot would believe the excuses dopers come up with by the way. There are plenty of those on here where those with fast times are dopers and dopers are all inoccent little lambs

wols: "After 5 years the effects of doping are 100% gone, despite what Sprint Geezer says. In fact there is plenty of evidence that after an extended period after doping the body is weaker."

I have admitted that my personal evidence is anecdotal, from people I know who have used outside T&F. Somebody posted a link to at least one study (I am unsure of its quality) supporting my opinion.

If you have access to "plenty of evidence", let's see some of it.

And to make a very specific statement like "after 5 years the effects of doping are 100% gone" is seemingly unsupportable.

Evidence? I mean good, quality evidence?

And I suppose it doesn't vary between individuals, and is totally independent of what they have been doing for those 5 years, and when in their growth cycle they doped, etc., etc., etc.?

VERY weak.

I continue to believe that there are lasting benefits to temporary doping with androgens.

Why? I have seen it with my own eyes...not only some positive effects remain, but also some negative effects, 20 years later.

I'm telling you guys, THIS is the next frontier. Massive doping while in a late-teen/early-20 growth phase, while being held out of eligibility but continuing to train, and even running non-sanctioned club meets.

A bit of time for clearance, then eligibility, then dropping onto the scene like an absolute bomb.

You will see, if you haven't already--unless the money for T&F completely dries up. IMHO it will be seen first in road racing, where it seems that it may have happened already.