I've worked at a Restaurant for 3 years while going to college. I have NEVER had a black person tip me. Not a quarter, not a dollar, not anything. They do however make ridiculous demands and want about 10 refills. While all this is going on it takes my attention away from people who ACTUALLY Tip, so I don't get as much from them as well.
tired waiter wrote:
I've worked at a Restaurant for 3 years while going to college. I have NEVER had a black person tip me. Not a quarter, not a dollar, not anything. They do however make ridiculous demands and want about 10 refills. While all this is going on it takes my attention away from people who ACTUALLY Tip, so I don't get as much from them as well.
This is the case, and it always has been. Something about African Americans (not black people from outside US, btw) and a reluctance to be generous. I have had some of the worst experiences w/ black customers when I was a waiter. You can always be assured of complaints, over-the-top requests, and general petty behavior, topped off by 5% if that.
True dat.
random a hole wrote:
How is this different (legally) than stopping somebody that leaves my store with an item without paying for it? Since the product was already consumed I can't detain them until police arrive?
What legal authority do you have to stop somebody leaving your store with an item without paying for it?
Mr. Obvious wrote:
What legal authority do you have to stop somebody leaving your store with an item without paying for it?
I don't know. I assume I have the right, I may be wrong. Do you know that I do not have such a right? Security guards do it all the time. I do not believe a private security guard has rights to detain thieves any more than I do. Please correct me if you have any factual insight.
random a hole wrote:
Mr. Obvious wrote:What legal authority do you have to stop somebody leaving your store with an item without paying for it?
I don't know. I assume I have the right, I may be wrong. Do you know that I do not have such a right? Security guards do it all the time. I do not believe a private security guard has rights to detain thieves any more than I do. Please correct me if you have any factual insight.
I don't have factual insight at this point. What state are you in?
What state did the original story take place in?
If they thought that they received poor service why should they tip? I give around 20% if service is ok, but if service is bad and there is no excuse (restaurant not busy) I will leave less or no tip at all.
What considered a good wage before taxes for someone working at a restaurant? How much should it vary from a nice steakhouse to a chain restaurant to a dive?
My impression is that the people that want more than 15% should find a new line of work. Sure it may not be the servers fault the order was messed up or the food was cold or they are extremely busy but that is not the customers fault either. The server needs to take that up with the manager and kitchen help.
Mr. Obvious wrote:
I don't have factual insight at this point. What state are you in?
What state did the original story take place in?
My state does not matter, I am just speaking hypothetically. I just have a hard time believing I do not have the right to detain somebody stealing from my business.
I mean, Gomer pulled a citizens arrest on Barney, what more justification do I need, Your Honor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9efgLHgsBmMrandom a hole wrote:
My state does not matter, I am just speaking hypothetically. I just have a hard time believing I do not have the right to detain somebody stealing from my business.
My guess is that you have every right to detain the object but not the person. In general you probably have the right to try to wrestle said object out of said person's hands but this would probably be an unwise thing to do. There can be many unexpected outcomes during a physical confrontation and most of them are bad.
In the case of food consumed at a restaurant there is no possibility of recovery of value provided. I cannot imagine that the restaurant has the right to detain customers.
Better in general to verbally confront, take a picture, call the police, take a picture of automobile (license plate) they leave in... But initiating a physical confrontation is opening a dangerous window, even if (perhaps especially if) your thief comes out worse off than you.
Please note that I have no legal expertise whatsoever.
Big Picture Please wrote:
You folks are all missing the big picture here. Whether or not a surcharge is mandatory is definitely NOT the point. The point is that these customers were falsely imprisoned, a serious criminal offense. I would be amazed if this restaurant is not sued into bankruptcy for this.
Somebody gets it
random a hole wrote:
Mr. Obvious wrote:I don't have factual insight at this point. What state are you in?
What state did the original story take place in?
My state does not matter, I am just speaking hypothetically. I just have a hard time believing I do not have the right to detain somebody stealing from my business.
I mean, Gomer pulled a citizens arrest on Barney, what more justification do I need, Your Honor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9efgLHgsBmM
Well, you can't just go up and grab somebody on the street--tat is legally assault. However this is a situation that many state laws may offer you some extra authority to detain somebody. As it depends on state laws, though, your state does matter. Anyway, we will go with Texas, since that is where the original story came from. Here are the conditions in the law covering merchant detention in Shoplifting in Texas:
0-7-116. Theft - Detention of suspect by merchant or peace officer.
(a) A merchant or a merchant's employee or agent or a peace officer who has probable cause to believe that a person has committed or is attempting to commit the offense of theft, as defined in § 39-14-103, may detain such person on or off the premises of the mercantile establishment if such detention is done for any or all of the following purposes:
(1) To question the person, investigate the surrounding circumstances, obtain a statement, or any combination thereof;
(2) To request or verify identification, or both;
(3) To inform a peace officer of the detention of such person, or surrender that person to the custody of a peace officer, or both;
(4) To inform a peace officer, the parent or parents, guardian or other private person interested in the welfare of a minor of the detention and to surrender the minor to the custody of such person; or
(5) To institute criminal proceedings against the person.
(b) Probable cause to suspect that a person has committed or is attempting to commit the offense of theft may be based on, but not limited to:
(1) Personal observation, including observation via closed circuit television or other visual device;
(2) Report of such personal observation from another merchant;
(3) Activation of an electronic or other type of mechanical device designed to detect theft; or
(4) Personal observation of dressing rooms, including observation via closed circuit television, two-way mirrors, or other visual devices shall be limited to observation by a person of the same sex as the person being observed. No such observation shall be lawful unless notices are posted in such dressing rooms that such monitoring may occur.
(c) A merchant or a merchant's employee or agent or a peace officer who detains, questions or causes the arrest of any person suspected of theft shall not be criminally or civilly liable for any legal action relating to such detention, questioning or arrest if the merchant or merchant's employee or agent or peace officer:
(1) Has reasonable grounds to suspect that the person has committed or is attempting to commit theft;
(2) Acts in a reasonable manner under the circumstances; and
(3) Detains the suspected person for a reasonable period of time.
(d) The merchant may use a reasonable amount of force necessary to protect such merchant, to prevent escape of the person detained, or to prevent the loss or destruction of property.
(e) A reasonable period of time, for the purposes of this section, is a period of time long enough to accomplish the purpose set forth in this section, and shall include any time spent awaiting the arrival of a law enforcement officer or the parents or guardian of a juvenile suspect, if the merchant or the merchant's employee or agent has summoned such law enforcement officer, parents or guardian.
So this statute is based entirely on theft of physical property and has nothing to say about theft of services. Services are covered under an entirely different section which makes no mention of the ability to detain anybody. It is possible that a judge would not hold the restaurant owners liable simply on the basis that he thought there was a reasonable basis for their actions but that would not be a position I would want to be in.
tired waiter wrote:
I've worked at a Restaurant for 3 years while going to college. I have NEVER had a black person tip me. Not a quarter, not a dollar, not anything. They do however make ridiculous demands and want about 10 refills. While all this is going on it takes my attention away from people who ACTUALLY Tip, so I don't get as much from them as well.
Absolutely true. Black people are the most entitled and worst behaved members of our society. They've been indulged for way too long.
I own a rental property and all the tenants who I have taken to court for failure to pay have been white.