Will the class of '08 graduate without any NCAA D1 champions in the true distance events?

And of course using this logic, every event besides the 100 is a poor man's race because if they were fast enough to run the 100 they would never have had to move up in distance. AND no one runs track unless they're not good at any other sports so obviously the 100 is a poor man's national title as well. Idiot.

Steeple people wrote:

The steeple is the poor man's national title. It is much less competitive than the 1,500, 5k, 10k. That is why so many runners jump into the steeple their Jr. Sr. year. They realize just how tough the main events are. Hence Kyle Perry, Justin Tyner and others all switch over in hopes of a title. They couldn't win one any other way.

The steeple is a red-headed step child distance race, nearly everyone on the national level that does it is not fast enough to make the 1500 or 5k/10k. The guys that are superiorly talented at the flat events do not do steeple. You get your occasional guy like Dan Lincoln that could match up with the best guys at flat events. But your Steve Slatterys of the world can not. Solinsky, Rupp, Lagat etc... with moderate hurdling work would destroy the steeple at nationals.

Twitched wrote:

Kind of an empty victory if Lawi isn't in the race, no? He already demolished Derrick at the 10k in the fall. Derrick needs to beat him.

I don't think he'd consider his first NCAA championship in his last NCAA race a hollow victory

Medal Detector wrote:

And of course using this logic, every event besides the 100 is a poor man's race because if they were fast enough to run the 100 they would never have had to move up in distance. AND no one runs track unless they're not good at any other sports so obviously the 100 is a poor man's national title as well.

Idiot.

Steeple people wrote:

The steeple is the poor man's national title. It is much less competitive than the 1,500, 5k, 10k. That is why so many runners jump into the steeple their Jr. Sr. year. They realize just how tough the main events are. Hence Kyle Perry, Justin Tyner and others all switch over in hopes of a title. They couldn't win one any other way.

He never said any of that or anything suggesting that

Medal Detector wrote:

And of course using this logic, every event besides the 100 is a poor man's race because if they were fast enough to run the 100 they would never have had to move up in distance. AND no one runs track unless they're not good at any other sports so obviously the 100 is a poor man's national title as well.

Idiot.

Do you actually not understand the difference between what he said and what you said? Changing events to avoid tougher competition is not the same as changing events to better suit your skillset.

cmurph wrote:

Twitched wrote:

Kind of an empty victory if Lawi isn't in the race, no? He already demolished Derrick at the 10k in the fall. Derrick needs to beat him.

I don't think he'd consider his first NCAA championship in his last NCAA race a hollow victory

That'd be only one step above him winning the NCAA steeple. Only because the competition is better in the 10k. But even in the 10k, is there anyone that can finish within 15 seconds of Derrick besides Lawi? Will Sambu do the 10k?

cmurph wrote:

Do you actually not understand the difference between what he said and what you said? Changing events to avoid tougher competition is not the same as changing events to better suit your skillset.

Nobody starts their athletic career as a miler,5k or 10k runner. Everyone at some point "changes their events" or sport as it were. You are assuming steeplechasers have changed their events to avoid tough competition. This is not the case. Most steeplechasers are better overall athletes and realize those athletic talents come more into play when jumping over things than when running on the flat. You cannot say people run track because it better suits them or they run distance because it better suits them but people run steeple to avoid competition. To say that is faulty logic is a gross understatement.

The women's steeple around the turn of the century was a weak event. It isn't any longer. Think about it; if the steeple were such a cherrypicker, how come there are any 3:40 1500 meter runners at all. Every one of those guys would rather be an NCAA champion than a non finalist. The reason is the exact same that there are 10.5 sprinters instead of them moving up and kicking everyone's ass in the 1500. Bottom line is all anyone who thinks the steeple is a gimme event that is not a national class steeplechaser is the giving a prime example of sour grapes. You can't run, you can't hurdle so what you cannot do must be too easy to be worth your time. Yeah right. I seriously doubt the people posting this bs could run a flat 3k in the time the NCAA steeple will be won in this year.

Clearly you are a steepler that isn't all that great at the 1500 or 5k.

1 Finley , Steve SR-4 Oregon 8:36.98 P

2 Mahoney, Travis SR-4 Temple 8:37.23 A

3 Tyner, Justin SR-4 Air Force 8:37.54

4 Hales, Brett SR-4 Weber State 8:39.64

5 Adams, David SR-4 Nebraska

6 Bor, Hillary SR-4 Iowa State

7 Cabral, Donn JR-3 Princeton

8 Turner, De'Sean JR-3 Indiana 8:42.09

9 Dannemiller, Adrien SR-4 Cornell 8:42.14

10 Poore, Andrew JR-3 Indiana 8:43.45

There are the top 10 steeple chase performers last year per the performance lists. I'll list the athlete and their place in the top 200 in the other three flat distance events. Cut offs are 3:48.59, 14:21.59, 30:39

athlete 1500 5000 10000

Finley x x x

Mahoney x x x

Tyner 21 30 x

Hales x 152 x

Bor x x x

Cabral 92 28 155

Turner 195 195 x

Adrien x 158 x

Poore 172 63 14

Medal Detector wrote:

Think about it; if the steeple were such a cherrypicker, how come there are any 3:40 1500 meter runners at all. Every one of those guys would rather be an NCAA champion than a non finalist. The reason is the exact same that there are 10.5 sprinters instead of them moving up and kicking everyone's ass in the 1500.

Are you trolling?

sc runner wrote:

It certainly didn't help that German Fernandez has been a flop.

Except Fernandez has already won an NCAA title. What am I missing about the point of your post?

1. The women's steeple IS still weak compared to other women's events. The top athletes are great, but look at the spread from 1-25 in the world, it's much larger than in other events proportionally speaking.

2. If ALL the 1500 guys switched to the steeple, only one would be champion. The point is, some of the top guys DID switch from other events. That's the nature of most events. It doesn't change anyone's argument. Who's to say that the top guys in the steeple DIDN'T switch to it because they thought their chances were better. Isn't that how everyone chooses an event?

And you don't think any of the people posting can run 8:35 or better? I'd be pretty surprised. I can't anymore, but I'm 20 years out of college.

--------

CABRAL ran 8:32 The performance lists dont count regional races or national races

Cabral the past two outdoor seasons

Was top 8 in the 5K at nationals and 2nd in the steeple at nationals

Yeah, I figured most people that followed the sport knew this was only up until regionals. Still drives the point home. Most of the top 40-50 in the 1500,5k,10k could run an 8:4x steeple or faster. And you point out one guy, which again drives the point home. For the most part the steeple is filled with guys that can not hang on the flat events.

NoVan wrote:

Lalang said in an interview right after Indoors that he is doing just the 5k at outdoors. I'd say that makes Derrick the favorite in the 10k.

When did he say that??

@ Metal Detector You can say what you want too but the fact is a lot of guys switch over specifically to try and win a title because they can't in the other events not because they love the steeple. Do you deny it? There are tons of Sr. Jr. that are first time steeplers. When was the last time a steeple national champ has won or was top 2 by time in the flat events? Find some please if you can.

I agree there would be a lot of great runners if all soccer players switched sports and purely ran but it goes the other way as well.

Finally my flat 3k time would be top 10 and I only ran the 3k indoors 2-3 times. There are a lot of posters (and African) who are a lot faster than you are so get off your high horse. The fact remains valid and everyone knows it.

German Fernandez already ran a true distance championship in his freshman year in the 1500m. I guess you could call the 1500 a middle distance, but its still a distance event.

Great, switch over and make the team in 2012 if it's so easy. You say lots of people do it, so name one. I happen to coach the steeple and send people like you away all the time because they think like you do. The argument remains the same. You have a logical train of thought that if followed to its ridiculous conclusion that all events are easy wins because no one starts out in this world as a runner. They all do other things first, aren't the best, and then gravitate to track and field. When was the last time a steeple champ was top two in a flat event? When was the last time a 100HH was a top 100 meter guy? When was the last time a miler was a top 100 meter guy? When was the last time the top 100 meter guy was a Heisman Trophy winner? I guess we're all just wannabee football players by your logic. (Sad thing is you probably are.) BTW- your 3k time "would be" top ten. Which means it's not. But you have excuses. there's a shock. Face it guys, some of us are better athletes and we prove it by doing things like decathlon, hurdles etc. Ashton Eaton is not cherrypicking the Deca because he can't succeed in one event. He's a total badass because he can do ten of them better than just about anyone else. Steeplers, the good ones, not the crossovers like you who switch to score 3 points in their conference meet, are better overall athletes than flat runners. I'd rather hae a steepler on my time sliding in some extra points in the flat events than having to count on a flat runner to score in the steeple. It just doesn't happen.

The competition in the steeple is softer than all of the other events. That's what makes it kind of cherry picking or whatever y'all are debating.