"I didn't watch above 1500 that meet ( being young guy - 1500m attention span all I had )
But, it wouda been hard to beat Viren that day
I woud suggest his line of fit that meet was preliminary
~ 52.1 / 1'50.1 -> 3'36.5 , 4'54.8 , 7'35.1 , 13'05.7 !! , 27'25.0 !"
Where do you get this numbers from ventolin?
Also Wejo, when using Safari I get "spam detection" 1/3 times when I try to post a reply, please fix this.
lease wrote:
(But nowadays two quality distance efforts in two months is just too much, isn't it? Try three HIGH quality efforts in eleven days.)
And people wonder why today's runners are so much faster.
it's a subscription site :
the key is simple :
if viren reckoned he was in 3'36/3'37 shape coming into munich, then he was in <<13'10 shape
( as pointed out by another guy, the wr attempts at 5k in those days were pathetic - jog to 3k in 8'00 & then kick last 2k - emiel ran 7'37wr ( weak wr considering he broke keino's 7'39 which was a ?solo run on dirt from '65 ) around the time, so ~ 7'55 was not unreasonable pace )
doping was legal and widespread then so i guess it was possible.
Ovett could easily have gone sub-13 (at his peak) with his 800m speed and 1500m stamina. Maybe even sub27 but that is
not certain. I agree that 5K/10K were very weak compared
to 800m/1500m during the 70/80s. Probably due lack of
fast continuous (African type training) which is the only
big difference between how elites train today and 35yrs ago.
If the website is run by the same man who ran in the 72 Olympics, he finished 10th in those finals, and 4th in both the 5 and 10 in the 68 games in his home country. He missed a medal by about 1s in the 10 000. He's another figure in the history of the sport who posts here. If it really is him, we should salute his accomplishment. Can you imagine what it must have felt like for him?
And those youtube videos, images of some of the great races of the past, are amazing to watch and listen to. It's hard to fathom the attitude of the British commentators in the 1970s and 80s, that their runners were the ones to beat, given that most of us have grown up watching the dominance of the African runners. Maybe that kind of confidence was justifiable back then...
That link to sportsreference.com mentioned in Miruts Yifter's bio that he was the one who missed his heat in the 5000m at the 72 Games - I thought that it was Keino, because of problems with the security? Does anyone know what happened, or who it happened to?
Juan Martinez posted a video on youtube of the '80 10 000m final -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02PCeZqnmxY&feature=related
Yifter's last lap was something special, but it was amazing to see team tactics by all 3 Ethiopians, and the differences in attitude. Does anyone know anything about the backstory about these three? If you watch the video, watch the other two Ethiopians, Yohannes Mohammed and Mohammed Kedir, in the last 650m. When Coghlan pushes on the backstretch, Mohammed covers and goes in front of him, but as they come into the homestraight before the bell, Mohammed loses the lead then seems to get upset - he grabs his hair and gestures as he is passed, and gets pushed in the back by the Finn Maaninka (who got the bronze but admitted to blood-doping the next year.) Kedir then goes to the front at the bell, and makes a push for the next 150, but when Coghlan comes up alongside and takes the lead with 250 to go, he looks around for Yifter (who was boxed in behind him) and then moves out of the way(!) to let him through on the inside. Yifter shifts and keeps going on the inside, blows by Coghlan before the commentator can react, and takes the race home. After the race Kedir comes up to Yifter (after Maaninka congratulates him BTW), but when Yifter goes over to Mohammed, Mohammed doesnt even want to touch him and turns away...Makes you wonder what kind of grip the Ethiopian federation/government must have had on the athletes (they jailed Mamo Wolde after he won them an Olympic marathon too, didn't they?) but whatever the state is now, there seems to be a long history of it. Simply amazing to watch. But does anyone know what happened between the teammates?
Dave Bedford could have broken the world 10,000m record in numerous meetings with executives of large corporations and have never had any issues. Why in the world would anyone get angry about this?
Granted, Dave Bedford worked in marketing and usually dealt with CMOs. CMOs tend to be the more "socially aware" executives...
Dave Bedford is in his mid-60s and breading the world 10,000m record is an accomplishment that came of age with his generation.
No chance that Viren was in 3:36,5 form over 1500m in Munich. He had run at least 7 1500m races in 72, with best time of 3:44,2. Maybe he was capable of 3:40, I don't know. 3:36? No way, absolutely no way.
Viren ran the last mile in Munich in close to 4 minutes (not sure exact time) with the last 800 in 1.56, so he must have been worth at least 3.38/3.39 for 1500. Very smooth runner. When he deposed Quax, Dixon, Stewart, Prefontaine in the 5000 a few days later, he did it in such a smooth way - he made it all look so controlled.
Ghost in Saudi,
, apply today
ghost wrote:
Viren ran the last mile in Munich in close to 4 minutes (not sure exact time) with the last 800 in 1.56, so he must have been worth at least 3.38/3.39 for 1500.
Ghost in Saudi,
http://www.kfupm.edu.sa, apply today
He ran the last Mile in around 4:13.
ghost wrote:
Viren ran the last mile in Munich in close to 4 minutes (not sure exact time) with the last 800 in 1.56, so he must have been worth at least 3.38/3.39 for 1500. Very smooth runner. When he deposed Quax, Dixon, Stewart, Prefontaine in the 5000 a few days later, he did it in such a smooth way - he made it all look so controlled.
Ghost in Saudi,
http://www.kfupm.edu.sa, apply today
Ghost, neither Dixon or Quax was in the Munich 5,000 final.
Viren TROUNCED Bedford & all the other contenders pre-Munich in the Stockholm 2 mile WR.
Prefontane's handlers (Bowerman & Dellinger) PURPOSELY kept Pre from racing Viren prior to Munich.....all the time managing/manipulating Pre's fragile ego.
FWIW, I believe Pre's Munich race was his best ever....hands down in his entire career.
said88 wrote:
ghost wrote:Viren ran the last mile in Munich in close to 4 minutes (not sure exact time) with the last 800 in 1.56, so he must have been worth at least 3.38/3.39 for 1500.
Ghost in Saudi,
http://www.kfupm.edu.sa, apply today
He ran the last Mile in around 4:13.
Viren ran the last mile of the 5000m in under 4:02.
Yifter....for the poster who asked...reported to the wrong gate and was refused entrance for the 5000m.
Brian Wave wrote:
said88 wrote:He ran the last Mile in around 4:13.
Viren ran the last mile of the 5000m in under 4:02.
Yifter....for the poster who asked...reported to the wrong gate and was refused entrance for the 5000m.
Remember, that/Yifter was after the massacre.....before the massacre Yifter is admitted into the stadium.
Why does no one consider Yifter a threat in the Munich 5,000.....that race played into his hands more than the 10,000.
Dorando wrote:
I never did really understand Bedford. Who remembers his National XC win (and earlier when he won the Southern Junior AND Senior XC champs ON THE SAME DAY!)It was my era - I watched him run at Portsmouth 27.4x on the dirt, then his 27:30 WR on TV. This at a time when very few were even under 28:30.
See him in those races and he was absolutely fearless. I saw that same look in the Munich heat, where I think if Puttyfeet had not been there to distract him he could easily have broken the WR.
Then.....he looked like a different guy in the finals. How someone could be so far off their best I just don't know.
,
The trouble with a front runner is they are relying on being 100% to win a kicker can be slightly off and in a championship race and still win. I remember Bedford saying after a European Champs race that if he's have joined at the bell lap run in 53 he would have lost, having a 54 pr! He also said he ran with no plan in the OG and should have decided to go after so many laps. He was young though and due to injury (and overtraining) never had chance to work more on his tactics
I've seen the pic of them discussing going for the record in some book
codger wrote:
FWIW, I believe Pre's Munich race was his best ever....hands down in his entire career.
He ran a terrible race.
just a buncha shit talking Brits, Brits, oh my.
Ventolin, why are your times always so far off what guys actually ran? Always?
wejo wrote:
Reading this article
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/farah-set-to-harvest-world-record-of-retired-gardener-7079665.htmland found this:
As the 64-year-old Puttemans knows only too well. He was in the Olympic 10,000m final in Munich in 1972, in which Lasse Viren fell in mid race but won in a world record time, 27min 38.4sec. Puttemans finished second behind the Finnish policeman. "He was just too fast for me on the last lap," the Belgian said.
It might have been different had Puttemans not expended so much energy in his heat. He and Dave Bedford ran so fast the great British hope turned to him with 2,000m to go and said: "Let's go for the world record." "We could have broken it easily," Puttemans reflected, "but I said to Dave, 'No, it's only the heat'. Maybe if we had run easier from the start in the heat it would have been different for both of us in the final."
Can some of the old timers on here talk about what the heat was like? what was the record why were they running so fast? Would love to hear your insight.
This is from page 28 from the 1972 Olympic September issue of Track and Field News:
Bedford and Puttemans heat: Kilo-2:45.1, 4K 11:00, 13:48.3 at 5K..then steay 2:50 until 8K.
"The steady pace continued, past 8000-meters in 22:16.2. Bedford asked Puttemans, "Shall we go for the world record?" Puttemans answered, "No, I don't thgink we should." Bedford, an impulsive type who was in trouble at the British high-altitude training camp for shooting near team-mates with an air gun then disappeared, said "But we are so close to the mark." Puttemans said , "No, we must save ourselves for the finals of the 10,000 and two races in the 5000."
They maintained the 2:50 pace until the last lap when Puttemans incredibly, out Bedord by 4 feet.27:53.4 to 27:53.6
I hope this helps. That all I have from that heat.
Side note: Puttemans set three world records right after the Olympics Sept. 14th 7:37.6 3k and on Sept. 20th he 12:47.8 three mile and 13:13.0 5k
maybe but wrote:
codger wrote:FWIW, I believe Pre's Munich race was his best ever....hands down in his entire career.
He ran a terrible race.
Nonsense. He did absolutely the best he could on the day. He (and America) simply could not comprehend that there were other decent distance runners in a place called Europe.
codger wrote:
Brian Wave wrote:Yifter....for the poster who asked...reported to the wrong gate and was refused entrance for the 5000m.
Remember, that/Yifter was after the massacre.....before the massacre Yifter is admitted into the stadium.
Why does no one consider Yifter a threat in the Munich 5,000.....that race played into his hands more than the 10,000.
Why do you think no one considered him a threat?
One reason he's not brought up is because he didn't run the event at all...no matter what the reason.