There is a reason why Adele got her throat surgery in the US, but it's nothing to do with the overall standard of care.
Similarly a lot of wealthy Arabs travel to London because London has some of the best surgeons in the world. These are private appointments, not on the NHS.
One thing that's different about the UK is that many surgeons and specialists, who primarily operate private practices, will often dedicate a proportion of their time to the NHS.
I've had friends that have had MRI's and surgeries on the NHS Healthcare. I was an American expat living in the UK and one of my British friends tore her acl while playing sports. She had an MRI, reconstructive surgery, rehab, etc. on her NHS plan. It didn't take months either - she got right in in a couple of weeks. Two others had hip replacements that seemed to work out fine (they didn't complain about being on a waiting list) and another had an appendectomy, although this was done as an open procedure and not with a scope (longer recover time, cheaper cost). I had one other friend who hurt his back and complained about having to wait for PT, although is GP didn't sound too understanding that he was an athlete.
I had private health insurance while I lived in the UK. You can get into a private GP immediately, see a specialist, get an MRI (same week if not same day), get physical therapy, etc. People in the U.S. don't realize that there is a private tier/option in the UK and there is also gap insurance if you are on a NHS waiting list and want to get in to a specialist or get physical therapy immediately.
Oh yes, and the prescription costs kick butt! My asthma inhaler costs $10 in the UK WITHOUT insurance and in the US it costs $128. Exact same inhaler. How could that be?
Here is the thing (those Americans so ignorant to our health system, and think theirs is better)
In the UK, if you have money you can get private health care and if you dont have money you get health care as well. Either way, EVERYONE gets treated if they need it.
In the US, the wealthy can pay for healthcare and the poor can die. (Ok I am being dramatic but no one outside of America thinks your system is appropriate for a super power, developed country). Its just greedy rich Americans who dont want universal health care, because it doesnt affect them. Universal care is about everyone having equal opportunities to live......but yeah, who would want that common right!!
In the UK, in order to get covered under the NHS, you have to see your GP first - if he refers you to a specialist, it's usually free, but you may have to wait.
When I have a minor injury, I usually see a private physiotherapist, where I can get an appointment the next day, and pay about £30-40 for what can be a 45 minute session - really good value for money.
In the hypothetical case that I think I need an MRI, but my GP thinks otherwise, I suspect I would have the option of paying for it privately. However, I don't think he would refuse to give me a referral if I genuinely felt I needed one, so this has not yet occurred to me.
The problem in the US is that if you have good insurance then you get excessively interventionist treatment and overpriced drugs that often have only a marginal benefit because no one is sensitive to cost, while if you have no insurance, you wait until you are about to drop dead, go to an emergency room, get "free" treatment that could have been done much more cheaply if you could have been treated before the condition became acute.
It's a completely screwed up and unsustainable system, especially considering that the US spends 16% of its GDP on healthcare where the UK and a large number of other developed countries (most with longer average life expectancies) spend under 10%.
Thats the old system. Times have changed.
rojo wrote:
I think this has been talked about before but can't remember the answer.
I was reading an article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/9080276/London-2012-Olympics-UK-Athletics-head-coach-Charles-van-Commenee-vows-to-help-unfunded-talent-on-late-charge.htmlhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/9080276/London-2012-Olympics-UK-Athletics-head-coach-Charles-van-Commenee-vows-to-help-unfunded-talent-on-late-charge.html) about how a bunch of athletes without lottery funding are doing well this year. As a result your coach said he'd try to help them out if they needed it.
"It doesn’t necessarily have to be warm-weather training or money. It could be an MRI scan or whatever. I have to be creative.”
My question is related to the fact that I thought that health-care was free over there.
Does the free health-care not cover athletic injuries? Or is there like a long line?
Explain how an athlete with say a suspected stress fracture would get an MRI.
Not a Brit, but yes it would be covered, if it was recommened by your doc; however, it would not be covered as part of some athletic trainning program, which is what I assume you are trying figure out. Also, universities don't have MRI machines and not every hospital has one either like you see in the U.S., which means unless it is an emergency situation, you might have to wait to get one done.
Paid healthcare is even deadlier.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22357873/ns/health-health_care/t/family-sues-insurer-who-denied-teen-transplant/#.TzqdtExWrmoThe good news is someone got a bonus for letting this person die.....As far as being misdiagnosed, it happens and will always happen no mater what. Heck even your patient got a MRI right away, it might not have helped. The tumor might have been too small. If you MRI everyone with headaches, you could end up killing people (see breast cancer for examples) since you will find a lot of things that look funny but are normal. But once you see them you have to do something so we end up with needless surgeries.
Groundskeeper Willie wrote:
Here's an anecdote that isn't related to Rojo's question, but it's worth sharing.
My neuro-oncologist told me this about one of his patients from the UK. She had been having headaches when she was in her 40's. Originally diagnosed as migraines. She got medication, they seemed to subside. When they came back, they adjusted her meds and sent her on her way. This process repeated itself twice more over several years.
Finally, since the problem would not go away, she managed to get in to see a specialist who ordered an MRI. By this time she was into her 50s. It was at this point that they discovered the brain tumor that had been causing her problems. It was also at this point that the specialist told her that it was unlikely she would be "eligible" for further treatment due to her age!
So she had to come here for treatment, and she is doing well, despite being mis-diagnosed for about a decade! As another poster said, there is no free healthcare. It could cost you your life!
Just as there are faster and slower runners, there are all kinds of docs. Ranges
from very stupid to somewhat smart.
from in-for-the-$$ to actually caring.
from the pill-dispenser to dig-into-it-deep types.
My opinion is based on knowing a few, some of whom are my relatives.
Of course but lets not let stuff like reality distract us drawing conclusions that match our political beliefs. Back the OP, in the US most plans will make you go through a GP. I doubt very many of them are going to refer you to a MRI (they get bonuses based on not doing things like that) when a very effective treatment is to do nothing for 6 weeks. You might be able to brow beat your GP into doing it but it is definitely a waste of health care dollars.
saggyBalls wrote:
Just as there are faster and slower runners, there are all kinds of docs. Ranges
from very stupid to somewhat smart.
from in-for-the-$$ to actually caring.
from the pill-dispenser to dig-into-it-deep types.
My opinion is based on knowing a few, some of whom are my relatives.
Try to keep up wrote:
Thats the old system. Times have changed.
I forgot about the unicorns.
NHYES wrote:
Here is the thing (those Americans so ignorant to our health system, and think theirs is better)
In the UK, if you have money you can get private health care and if you dont have money you get health care as well. Either way, EVERYONE gets treated if they need it.
In the US, the wealthy can pay for healthcare and the poor can die. (Ok I am being dramatic but no one outside of America thinks your system is appropriate for a super power, developed country). Its just greedy rich Americans who dont want universal health care, because it doesnt affect them. Universal care is about everyone having equal opportunities to live......but yeah, who would want that common right!!
I agree 100%! In a highly developed liberal democratic polity, everyone should have access to healthcare. There should be a safety net for everybody. But you are wrong about the poor dying - some do, but it is the middle class and self-employed folks that get screwed. We have medicaid for the poor and medicare for the old. The rich can pay, but many in the middle class opt to go without health care, don't get regular checkups or much needed medication and then proceed to have serious health problems. We need these folks (and everyone) to have access to preventative care and overall good medical care.
But how would you implement this in a country of 310 million people? It is extremely difficult - too bad we didn't implement an NHS type system like the UK did immediately after WWII.
Randy Oldman wrote:Similarly a lot of wealthy Arabs travel to London because London has some of the best surgeons in the world. These are private appointments, not on the NHS.
One thing that's different about the UK is that many surgeons and specialists, who primarily operate private practices, will often dedicate a proportion of their time to the NHS.
it doesn't work like that
the surgeon has to be a top guy in an nhs hospital in order to have the kudos to attract private patients
without the nhs job he'd be attracting nickel'n'dime private work
you can get things done pretty fast
i've ordered 3 MRIs & a CT in past 1/52
none of them desperately urgent ( for life-threatening conditions ) - i reckon they'll get done within 1/12
the system deems it easier now for GPs to order MRIs/CTs at cost of few hundred $100s & manage the outcome possibly in primary care ( GP ) rather than send to the hospital for an appt with specialist, which is ~ $400 - 600 cost to taxpayer just for him to open the door & say :
"hi !"
then he orders a scan for aforementioned few hundred $100s
i saw one decrepit guy today who looked like a bum, but he talked nicely & was polite & i had some interest as a result
he had more or less constant headaches for 6/12 which were possibly worsening
he had severe dental problems & seeing a maxillo-facial surgeon in 2/12
his headaches were upsetting him & he was worried about most of his teeth having fallen out
it's likely his headaches were result of his dental problems & i shouda just given him script for codeine/tramadol/oxycodone & say "tough it out - nothing more i can do"
but he was nice & i felt sympathetic & the CT scan took 60s to fill in on the computer as a self-populating form
so i referred him for a CT brain ( told him i'm not expecting any pathology, so if he has to wait 1/12, that's fine ) - which saved taxpayer $400 - 600 as with a -ve CT i'm not referring him to a neurologist & can assure him no tumour/SOL/aneurysm/neuralgia/etc & it's dental/migraine or some other non-organic patholgy headache
but more importantly, i sent a letter to his maxillo-facial guy to see him within a coupla weeks
the system is simply about how busy you are & how much effort you can be bothered to put in
smile & say hello when entering your room, you'll get top treatment
come in angry & morose & it's
"take some codeine/naproxen, kindly f*ck off & come back in 2/52 & see my colleague"
rojo wrote:"It doesn’t necessarily have to be warm-weather training or money. It could be an MRI scan or whatever. I have to be creative.”
My question is related to the fact that I thought that health-care was free over there.
Does the free health-care not cover athletic injuries? Or is there like a long line?
Explain how an athlete with say a suspected stress fracture would get an MRI.
he's talking about an MRI within ~ 24 hours
if any guy came in to his GP with suspected stress fracture, usually, in big towns/cities, he'd get referred to the ER with letter asking for an X-ray looking for hairline #
if # seen, they get plastered
if # not seen, the letter shoud state that the GP wants him referred to associated # clinic ( usually within 2 - 3/7 to see the orthopaedist for consideration of bone/MRI/CT scan ( whichever they felt is most appropriate ( & patient immobilised during interim with one of those hard plastic casts) ), which wouda usually be carried out within 1/52
if scan shows something - full treatment iniated
woudn't be much more than 1/52 from GP to full treatment & we are talking hobby-joggers
if an elite athlete turned up, the GP shoud actually talk to head doc of ER & try & get this done quicker - it may not be more than 1 or 2/7 slower than if they had full private insurance - & remember, it's the same docs who work nhs & private
it all depends on how busy GP is & the patient's attitude - a pleasant patient attitude can be worth $100s of better &/or quicker treatment
that is take home message
Dr. Dolittle wrote:
I forgot about the unicorns.
That explains your first post. How are things in fantasy land?
Do many of your patients end up wanting to punch you in the face or do you act differently offline?
formerexpat wrote:
I've had friends that have had MRI's and surgeries on the NHS Healthcare. I was an American expat living in the UK and one of my British friends tore her acl while playing sports. She had an MRI, reconstructive surgery, rehab, etc. on her NHS plan. It didn't take months either - she got right in in a couple of weeks. Two others had hip replacements that seemed to work out fine (they didn't complain about being on a waiting list) and another had an appendectomy, although this was done as an open procedure and not with a scope (longer recover time, cheaper cost). I had one other friend who hurt his back and complained about having to wait for PT, although is GP didn't sound too understanding that he was an athlete.
I had private health insurance while I lived in the UK. You can get into a private GP immediately, see a specialist, get an MRI (same week if not same day), get physical therapy, etc. People in the U.S. don't realize that there is a private tier/option in the UK and there is also gap insurance if you are on a NHS waiting list and want to get in to a specialist or get physical therapy immediately.
Oh yes, and the prescription costs kick butt! My asthma inhaler costs $10 in the UK WITHOUT insurance and in the US it costs $128. Exact same inhaler. How could that be?
The epitome of this is the Portland Hospital for Women and Children in London. I was an expat in London and my son was born there. Great hospital, but they don't accept NHS. For me, it was great - US expat health insurance covered everything. Pretty much all Americans and Arabs in there. Got a private room, wife stayed a week, wine list, 24/7 room service. Top doctors.
Re NHS: The papers always have a horror story a week about something gone awry at a NHS hospital.
Zing. U got the UK healthcare system! It obviously sucks huge. Socialist medicine is terrible. Thanks for enlightening me.
never a concern
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