You can play with the rep times. The important thing is the form and recovery. Speed builds. As long as the technique / form of the athlete is efficient and effective.
If these are 16 - 17 year old, they can handle this. The issue for you is that the session will be over in 20 minutes and you'll be wondering if you've done enough.
malacoochiebambino wrote:
It's more about pace. When I ran the 10 X 300 it was 38 - 42. When I dropped them to 35 secs it was 4 - 5 reps, and a slower walk recovery.
Qualikty is key.
The issue with doing a 600 as the first rep is it flattens their technique and makes the rest of the session less effective. I might suggest revwersing that session. It wil lmake it more of a sprinter / technique session than a survival session. You can control the consistency of the 200s, then the 300. The 600 becomes what it is, a focus on technique and concentration. And finishing.
I hear what you are saying. The thought behind the 600 is for preparation for the workout. I'm always worried about pulling a hamstring when they are doing overspeed.
Even with good dynamic stretching and strides I really worry about throwing them right out into 200's right away.
malacoochiebambino wrote:
The issue for you is that the session will be over in 20 minutes and you'll be wondering if you've done enough.
So true.
How does a 600 translate the other way, to an 800. Does a 1:21 translate to about a 1:55?
curiouscoach wrote:
[quote]malacoochiebambino wrote:
I hear what you are saying. The thought behind the 600 is for preparation for the workout. I'm always worried about pulling a hamstring when they are doing overspeed.
Even with good dynamic stretching and strides I really worry about throwing them right out into 200's right away.
Its not about the distance. Its about the speed and recovery. Slow them down and control the time of recovery.
Doesn't matter whether they are 100s, 200s 400s or 600s. Its about the pace and form, not about the distance. 200 is a great training distance for srpinters - though 150 is great too.
This isn't about conditioning, strengthening and then running fast. Thisis about learning how to run fast. Warm, strong, fit people pull muscles. To run fast, you have to run fast. Its about learning how to control yourself at speed. And you have to build speed endurance, not just endurance. "And stretching is not all its cracked up to be." Pulling muscles is more about inconsistent muscle firing than tightness.
I know through experience to start them off at a low intensity which is what the 600 will be good for. You can't control a HS kids speed on the first rep with short rest. The 600 will not slow their 200's down that I'm sure of.
We'll have to disagree on this. My experience tells me something different so I'm not going to change my mind about it. Sure there is always a risk whenever you do a high intensity workout but being properly warmed up and stretched out (dynamics and not static) are important and will definately reduce the chance of injury. I have a team of 35 with 0 injuries (caused by track) and we're entering the second half of our season.
I'm just posting our progress as a team. I appreciate advice but I'm not looking for a debate. Originally I didn't know how a 600 time could predict a 400 time.
I'm new to the indoor scene as a coach but I'm not new to track. I'm always looking for advice and trying to learn but I know a thing or two coaching many athletes. I get a lot of advice sometimes from those who have experience with themselves alone. I listen to it but it's not always going to work for my guys.
Ran a 3:35.2 today. Really happy with the result. We're not running again for two weeks and when we do the guys will be doing battle inseveral other events but I still expect that they will either match or better this mark. They are assured a spot in our state meet where they will run it all out.
The guys ran a 3:31.66 last week. We go at it again this weekend and again at Nationals in the emerging elite category.
600m is 1.5 times as far as 400m.
You're welcome
Racing again tomorrow afternoon.
malacoochie wrote:
curiouscoach wrote:[quote]malacoochiebambino wrote:
I hear what you are saying. The thought behind the 600 is for preparation for the workout. I'm always worried about pulling a hamstring when they are doing overspeed.
Even with good dynamic stretching and strides I really worry about throwing them right out into 200's right away.
Its not about the distance. Its about the speed and recovery. Slow them down and control the time of recovery.
Doesn't matter whether they are 100s, 200s 400s or 600s. Its about the pace and form, not about the distance. 200 is a great training distance for srpinters - though 150 is great too.
This isn't about conditioning, strengthening and then running fast. Thisis about learning how to run fast. Warm, strong, fit people pull muscles. To run fast, you have to run fast. Its about learning how to control yourself at speed. And you have to build speed endurance, not just endurance. "And stretching is not all its cracked up to be." Pulling muscles is more about inconsistent muscle firing than tightness.
This guy is good!!
I'm curious as to why you did not have them run a 400m time trial
The guys were on pace for their best time when an athelete from another team stepped on my anchor leg's foot and in the process did quite a bit of damage with his spikes. My athlete lost his shoe and while hurt still got the team in in 3:34. The other team was DQ'd.
quote]ukathleticscoach wrote:
I'm curious as to why you did not have them run a 400m time trial[/quote]
I'm not sure why you would suggest that I have the guys do a time trial at thsi point?
curiouscoach wrote:
The guys were on pace for their best time when an athelete from another team stepped on my anchor leg's foot and in the process did quite a bit of damage with his spikes. My athlete lost his shoe and while hurt still got the team in in 3:34. The other team was DQ'd.
quote]ukathleticscoach wrote:
I'm curious as to why you did not have them run a 400m time trial
I'm not sure why you would suggest that I have the guys do a time trial at thsi point?[/quote]
You are right there you should have already done that
Sorry, I am unable to anwer this politely. Are you stupid. Note the lack of a question mark. The point is to find out who will be best for your 4 x 400 and to know what times they can do for 400m.
How can you know what runners do for 600m which is hardly ever run but not 400m. Don't reply I'm not really interested!
We race overdistance in the early season and sharpen at the end of the season.There is NO individual 400 meter race in indoor track in High School where we are. I wasn't trying to decide who would be on the team. I only have a few guys who could do it and it was obvious who was going to run. I don't have an alternate that can keep up with these guys yet. I'm working on that. We have a small school. Your athletes must feel lucky that you're there coach. You come from a position of having all of the answers without knowing anything. That says something about what kind of coach you may be.I guess it's a waste of time posting here about the guys. At first I received some good information and I'm thankful for that. Then I thought it would be cool to post their progress.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
curiouscoach wrote:The guys were on pace for their best time when an athelete from another team stepped on my anchor leg's foot and in the process did quite a bit of damage with his spikes. My athlete lost his shoe and while hurt still got the team in in 3:34. The other team was DQ'd.
quote]ukathleticscoach wrote:
I'm curious as to why you did not have them run a 400m time trial
I'm not sure why you would suggest that I have the guys do a time trial at thsi point?
You are right there you should have already done that
Sorry, I am unable to anwer this politely. Are you stupid. Note the lack of a question mark. The point is to find out who will be best for your 4 x 400 and to know what times they can do for 400m.
How can you know what runners do for 600m which is hardly ever run but not 400m. Don't reply I'm not really interested![/quote]
The thing you have to remember about the 600 meters is that it's roughly half-way between the 400 meters (one lap on an outdoor track) and the 800 meters (2 laps, "the metric half-mile"). I don't have a calculator on me, so I can't be precise with the math, but in any case, your 600 meter time will be slower than your 400 meter time, but faster than your 800 meter time (because you'll finish sooner!). Hope this helps. Keep on jogging!
'We race overdistance in the early season and sharpen at the end of the season.
There is NO individual 400 meter race in indoor track in High School where we are. '
Sorry was a bit harsh on you but then why are you interested in what they can do for 400m?
Keep us posted on their progress
ukathleticscoach wrote:
'We race overdistance in the early season and sharpen at the end of the season.
There is NO individual 400 meter race in indoor track in High School where we are. '
Sorry was a bit harsh on you but then why are you interested in what they can do for 400m?
Keep us posted on their progress
If, for instance, this was NY high school indoor competition, there is no *open* 400 available--just 300 and 600--BUT there is a 4x400 *relay*.
It seems that originally the coach, working from individual 600 race performances, was interested in having an idea of what the kids might do when he put them together in a 4x400 (which, apparently, he had not yet done). He wanted to have a general idea of what their relay time, based on their 600s, might be at that stage.
Thanks to the posters who answered his original question (pretty accurately, it seems), and thanks to the OP for keeping us abreast of the team's development. Good luck the rest of the way!--I'd be interested to continue hearing how they do.
OK, we have New Balance Nationals next Friday. They qualified in the emerging elite category. I'll post how they do and then maybe I'll start a new thread marking their progreess for the outdoor season referencing this thread. That will probabaly help curb some of the negativity.
I have already told the guys they will probably get a little slower in the early season of outdoor track before getting faster because we are going back to the basics. After all the sharpening this season they need to build their strength back up. They will not run another 4x400 until late April at Penn Relays.
curiouscoach wrote:[ I'll post how they do and then maybe I'll start a new thread marking their progreess for the outdoor season referencing this thread. That will probabaly help curb some of the negativity
No thank you, that is good! Good lock and dont come back with slow results.