To Meb, Galen, Dathan, Ryan: Ebullient Peace be with you
To Meb, Galen, Dathan, Ryan: Ebullient Peace be with you
Meb got silver with a 2:11, which means Frank Shorter with a gold and a Silver with similar times in the 70s! I think Shorter would take the title of "greatest" American marathoner.Either way, Ryan Hall has run faster than both of them and placed higher than both of them against a stiffer international competition.Everyone claims that Gold is the most important thing for a runner to win to be considered "Greatest", but how many golds does Geb have?
Med School Runner wrote:
Hall is not the best American marathoner of all time. I seem to recall another American who actually has a major marathon win (New York) and won an Olympic silver medal (Athens).
No contest.
BEST AMERICAN MARATHONERS OF ALL-TIME
1. Ryan Hall
2. Khalid Khannouchi
3. Meb Keflezighi
4. Frank Shorter
5. Bill Rodgers
You cannot diminish the fact that head-to-head, Ryan Hall has absolutely blasted Meb. Even Meb has stated that Ryan is the best in the history of the USA. On Hall's worst day, he would still beat Meb's PB!! Think about that for a moment. The marathon comes so naturally to Hall, it is freakish. Much like Shorter in the '70s.. his game was up and above the rest.
Does anyone know why Hall and Rupp were spotted together in San Francisco Friday, December 23rd?
C'mon now, Hall doesn't "suck".
Of all the studs you guys are talking about, Meb and Haul are really the only "seasoned" marathoners, and therefore, the only ones a smart betting person would put their money on to make the team.
As much potential to shine as all those other guys have, they are all a bit of an unknown in the full marathon distance. One or more of them will probably have a great run, but any of them could much more easily blow up in the final miles than Haul or Meb.
Med School Runner wrote:
Hall is not the best American marathoner of all time. I seem to recall another American who actually has a major marathon win (New York) and won an Olympic silver medal (Athens).
No contest.
If you are suggesting Meb is the greatest US marathoner of all time you have a terrible sense of history and are a moron.
Of all the studs you guys are talking about, Meb and Haul are really the only "seasoned" marathoners, and therefore, the only ones a smart betting person would put their money on to make the team.
As much potential to shine as all those other guys have, they are all a bit of an unknown in the full marathon distance. One or more of them will probably have a great run, but any of them could much more easily blow up in the final miles than Haul or Meb.
I think Rupp has great biomechanics for the marathon. However, it's no secret that he's no fan of the longer tempos required for elite marathoning. People with larger quads usually do loathe the long stuff. So will Rupp's larger quads, which contribute heavily to his very fluid biomechanics, actually be a detriment over 26.2? I do wish him well and will be rooting for him.
o.O wrote:
Everyone claims that Gold is the most important thing for a runner to win to be considered "Greatest", but how many golds does Geb have?
Two in the Olympics and four in World Championships I think.
It would be hard to bet against Hall if Rupp races, just due to the marathon expereince of Hall. He has shown to be very consistent, and it would probably require an American Debut record to beat him.
However, it's not like sub 2:09 is unheard of as a debut time. Hall did it in fact. Dare I say that Rupp's 26:48 puts him in the territory of all the Kenyan guys that are debuting much faster than that, sub 2:07 even.
The best strategy to beat Rupp would seem to be surging. That would be the hardest thing to contende with for an inexperienced marathoner. However, it happens to be the one thing Hall has not shown he can do.
Rupp has run so much faster than Hall in the shorter distances, and recently to boot, I can't imagine him getting out kicked by any American if he is still there with 5k to go. Or 10k even.
Wow, two full pages and no one mentioned yet that there was quite some tailwind that day on the last five miles. That was good for probably 30s to 1min. It's still a very good time but you gotta take that into account. Everyone was running great times that day.
Haul doesn't have to do anything above and beyond his usual "A-game" even-paced race to make top 3. If he can do this, the chances are very slim that more than 2 others can be ahead of him at the finish. I think a much greater uncertainty is whether Galen can endure that pace for the full 26.2. If he can, then obviously Haul is in trouble, but so what - they both make the team, and what a team it would be!
NYCGuru wrote:
Wow, two full pages and no one mentioned yet that there was quite some tailwind that day on the last five miles. That was good for probably 30s to 1min. It's still a very good time but you gotta take that into account. Everyone was running great times that day.
laffitup wrote:
If Rupp seriously runs it and hangs with Hall he is clearly capable of out-kicking Hall....
I'm just excited to watch Rupp race Hall. Could be a game-changer for American distance running.
Sjuan wrote:
You cannot diminish the fact that head-to-head, Ryan Hall has absolutely blasted Meb.
Not every time....
1. Meb Keflezighi, Mammoth Lakes, Calif., 2 hours, 9 minutes, 15 seconds.
2. Robert Kipkoech Cheruiyot, Kenya, 2:09:56.
3. Jaouad Gharib, Morocco, 2:10:25.
4. Ryan Hall, Mammoth Lakes, Calif., 2:10:36.
Does any one have a link to a replay of the new york half where Rupp ran?
NYCGuru wrote:
Wow, two full pages and no one mentioned yet that there was quite some tailwind that day on the last five miles. That was good for probably 30s to 1min. It's still a very good time but you gotta take that into account. Everyone was running great times that day.
Also, for what its worth Gebremariam beat Rupp by more in nyc than he beat Ryan by in Boston.
Sorry, I lied. They both got beat by exactly 5 seconds.
hall>rupp wrote:
NYCGuru wrote:Wow, two full pages and no one mentioned yet that there was quite some tailwind that day on the last five miles. That was good for probably 30s to 1min. It's still a very good time but you gotta take that into account. Everyone was running great times that day.
Also, for what its worth Gebremariam beat Rupp by more in nyc than he beat Ryan by in Boston.
Bill Rodgers. Hands down
Four Bostons
Four NYCs
One Fukuoka.
Two ARs
The Dingo wrote:
I think the argument of Hall not running faster than 2:08:42 in 4+ years is BS. Was his 2:04:58 wind-aided? Obviously. Is Boston slightly downhill? Yes. But you're absolutely delusional if you don't think that time is worth at least a 2:07 on a normal day at a course like Chicago.
Other past performances at Boston, 2:09:40 and 2:08:41, show that he has at the very least maintained that high level of fitness over the past 4 years. The Boston course has always been considered a good bit slower than other traditionally fast courses despite the net downhill. Those times IMO are worth 2:08ish and 2:07ish. He's been extremely consistent putting up performances in that area and if he runs something like that at Houston I have a hard time believing Rupp will be next to him. Saying he hasn't been faster than a 2:09 guy of late is absolute bogus.
Is he in better shape than in 2007/2008 shape where he ran 59:43 and 2:06:17? Who knows but I think he's proved over the past few years that those times were no fluke.
Rupp's only run one HM and no marathons. His HM was a very impressive debut and I think he'll be a really good marathoner in the future but the marathon is a different animal than the 10k and even if he does transition well, I don't think his debut will be beating Hall even on an average day. If you're trying to tell me Hall isn't the overwhelming favorite then I think you're crazy.
I agree that his Boston performance is worth quite a bit faster than 2:09. However, he hasn't run faster than 2:08:42 on any non-aided course since early '08, so maybe he's just had a good run on a downhill/wind-aided course, which Houston is not. I really don't see him breaking 2:09 in the trials. I see him and Rupp around 2:09 and Meb beating a handful of other guys for 3rd in 2:10.