Swimming to Running equivalent

Both men and women 200 metres freestyle world records are fairly close to both men and women 800 metres T&F world records. I estimate as a woman in her late teens and early twenties Gwen Jorgensen was about a 2:10 200 metres free style swimmer. I estimate Gwen Jorgensen used to be capable of about 2:10 800 metres, T&F athlete.

More to the point: for most of us, what benefit do we gain from adding some swimming during our running training?

For me, as for many runners, swimming is extremely difficult and we are out of breath after each lap or half lap. I feel very proud to have done three laps in a row last week with some semblance of kick turns (which I am just learning finally along with keeping my face in the water on the crawl) and no stopping. But much more than six laps is tough, and I found my muscles cramping up when I continued superslow a few more laps after the six hard laps. Is fifteen minutes of swimming for a non-swimmer like myself worth aerobically something like five minutes of 20-10s?

I've been swimming 4 times per week for the past year due to injury. I've found the two activities share little cross-over benefit. My swimming has improved dramatically and it is a great workout - whether a distance swim or 20x100y, you can really jack your heart rate and get yourself pretty spent. However, as my injury improved, I noticed I still had good running endurance, but my speed/stamina at faster paces was severely lacking...took several weeks to feel like a normal runner.

Conversely, biking always seemed to serve as a more direct substitute for running.

I don't know if you can compare distances in water and on land. Sherm Chavoor, the '68 women's Olympic Coach and the chief coach at Arden Hills in Sacramento, CA and the coach of many great Olympic swimmers, was the pioneer of extreme over-distance training in the pool. His philosophy (wrong-headed) was, "More Miles, Better Swimmers." He had his guys logging fifty-to-eighty mile weeks in two- and even three-a-day summer sessions. Michael Phelps and Ryan Lochte swim not much more than half that distance today. This wasn't the equivalent of running 160 to 240 miles a week. The toll on the body is much less than the toll of dragging ourselves over the surface of the earth. My point is: this is apples and oranges.

without getting caught up in technicalities, if you are a strong enough swimmer to go 90 minutes do that. More time in the pool means more endurance training, which is the result youd want. Use a kick board if this helps you to swim longer.

12345 wrote:

What would be, if any, the equivalent of a swim to a run. Like lets say i went skiing all day and it was too dark when i got home and i was supposed to run 70 mins, what could i swim to at least come close to the equivalent of a 70 min run

Unfortunately there is no true equivalent. Nice try by everyone in correlating 400m running with 100m swimming or a 400m = a mile. These are completely two different workouts. Swimming is obviously way less impact (no impact) and thus doesn't break down your legs like running. That being said, you're muscles are constantly working at 100% resistance when swimming thus creating a different kind of fatigue and or stress. Much more anaerobic work done while swimming as opposed to Aerobic. Also, I found that using an aqua-jogger is a must in order to maximize actual running muscles and form. If you can combine a 30 minute aqua-run (10 min easy run-swim warm-up w/ 10 min of a fartlek style on/off workout doing 10 secs hard 10 secs easy x 5 w/ easy aqua-run swim for 5 min x 2 sets) and then jump on a spin bike for 30 minutes you'll get a killer workout while "Maintaining" fitness. Once you're able to run on dry land in will take your legs a few days or so become 'Road Ready' depending on how long you've been out.

I've done this workout many times when hurt or just as substitute workout and it never fails.

Running and swimming are both cardio but are not equal. Running is way more catabolic.

I'm an ex-swimmer and these 4:1 conversions DO make sense as far as effort/time commitment/level of mastery [sorta, I guess for freestyle primarily]

but swimming doesnt help your running. full stop. Not in the least. It's something to xtrain at I suppose but it wont make you a faster runner, but can help w/recovery. I'm pretty confident not swimming is just as effective in run-improvement goals as light x-training. Significant swimming would certainly detract [zero sum game on time/commitment/effort for most]

anyways just some rambling

disclaimer: 100y free peaked at 47, 50 free at 20.n [true sprinter]. Long course meters I sucked---52.n was my lifetime PR [can barely sneak under 1:00 these days]

Swimming doesnt help your running [I'm an occasional try-athlete, with a sample Oly split of 22:00 1500m taking it easy, 1:10 bike because I'm just not that fast, and a 48:nn 10k because try being old sometimes, it sucks], still comfortable under 2:30 isnt terrible. Oh well I get to the beer line relatively early even if I'm not holding the precious 3rd place AG spot

Ah, an actual legitimate excuse to visit Quigley's blog. She's been doing a bit of swimming this year while injured, and has posted swimming workouts that she got from her Olympic triathlon gold teammate for varying levels of swimming capability.

A dolphins can swim up to 40 mph, but on land it can't go anywhere

A cheetah can run up to 80 mph, but in the water it can barely tread or doggy paddle.

running requires a certain body type and swimming requires a certain body type

For running, you have to be toned and strong from the feet all they way to the chest. So the body

of runner is very dense, lacking flexibility. Ankles, feet, calves, hamstrings, quads, arms, and shoulders have

to have a certain amount strength and rigidity to deal with the constant pounding of the road, nothing can be weak or

too loose.

That is no good for swimming. A runner's natural buoyancy would be way below the surface of the water, because a runner's body is very dense. So the runner would sink in the water, and not be aligned, thus creating a swimming up hill effect, and barley propelling through the water. The runner would be working twice or three times as hard as natural swimmers.

Swimmers make for poor runners, because their bodies are two flexible, and they carry more fat. Fat is less dense than water or muscle, which is why a stick of butter will float in the water, but meat will sink in the water. If you look at professional swimmers, they are on the flabby side like a dolphin, whale, seal, etc. The fat allows them to have high buoyancy ,so they sit closer to the surface of the water, allowing them to be aligned and straight, and that allows them to easily propel through the water like a missile. Their ankles are very flexible, and they can bend their feet back like a fin....

Now that type of body is terrible for running, and wouldn't be able to deal with the constant pounding of the road, especially in the ankles and feet. That is why regular swimmers get hurt a lot when they run. They are too flexible and flabby, lacking rigidity and strength.

Cycling and running have similar body types:

Track Cyclists and Sprinters have the same body type. They are very muscular in the legs and torso, because they need to generate a lot of power/speed in a short amount of time.

Distance runners and Road Cyclists have similar body types . They are both lean, but toned, and their bodies are built for high aerobic performances and speed endurance.

This is why running can help your cycling and cycling can help your running.

But swimming can't do squat for your running, and running can't do squat for your swimming. 2 completely different body types.

Scorpion, I think that was a very good post until your final two paragraphs. You went too far in saying swimming does squat for running. No, it does something for running as swimming is good for general fitness, and that helps running.

catabolic wrote:

Running and swimming are both cardio but are not equal. Running is way more catabolic.

Not sure why no one has brought up doing running workouts in the pool and comparing that to running on the ground. I have found pool running quite beneficial as alternatives to regular running, especially when injured. I have had athletes use this method since the late 1970's with great success. I would use time for length of the running in the pool, but double the quantity of the number of reps and cut the rest down to about 1/2 of that used for running. Thus, if I wanted 10x400 @ 65 seconds with 3 min rest, I would have the pool workout consist of 20 x 65 with 90 sec rest. I would give a 3 min break after 10 reps. The pace of the water run is dictated by their ability to sustain a good rhythm for the entire length of the rep and continue with each succeeding rep. Runners were encouraged to try and keep their running form as best as possible, especially their arm action.

I would have recovery lap swimming for therapeutic purposes with no time limit other than doing enough laps to feel tired, but not exhausted. I found little fitness benefit by just doing lap swims for long periods of time.

When running in the pool, a vest or belt float is used and the runner does not touch the bottom of the pool.

Running in the Rain wrote:

There is no equivalent. I have been out for 6 weeks with a knee injury and have been swimming 4 times a week with total workouts being between 2000-3000 meters and decided to time trial a 5k on the track and was 80 seconds slower than before I got hurt.

Of course not, running and swimming are radically different nervous system stimuli. You are probably a much better swimmer for having done it, but your running suffered.

To put it another way, being a swimmer makes me a better runner than if I did nothing at all, but it doesn’t make me a good runner.

The swimming equivalent of a 5K would be about a 1250 meter swim, which the best male swimmers can do in about 12:00 give or take.

Tarantula wrote:

Scorpion_runner wrote:

If you look at professional swimmers, they are on the flabby side like a dolphin, whale, seal, etc. The fat allows them to have high buoyancy ,so they sit closer to the surface of the water

Scorpion, I think that was a very good post until your final two paragraphs. You went too far in saying swimming does squat for running. No, it does something for running as swimming is good for general fitness, and that helps running.

You guys are idiots. Flabby AF-

MPhelps wrote:

Tarantula wrote:

Scorpion, I think that was a very good post until your final two paragraphs. You went too far in saying swimming does squat for running. No, it does something for running as swimming is good for general fitness, and that helps running.

You guys are idiots. Flabby AF-

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bk3AOw9HC2k/?hl=en&taken-by=m_phelps00

Running in the Rain wrote:

There is no equivalent. I have been out for 6 weeks with a knee injury and have been swimming 4 times a week with total workouts being between 2000-3000 meters and decided to time trial a 5k on the track and was 80 seconds slower than before I got hurt.

Swimming only for a month was better than laying on your couch and not exercising at all. Your cardiovascular training can be equaled swimming. The difference between swimming and running is gravity. When we run, especially when we race distances 800 metres and shorter, we are fighting gravity. Runners have to get used to their body slamming against the ground 2.5 to 5 times body weight. Obviously if you only swam for a month your anti-gravity muscles atrophied. Swimmers are able to tolerate slightly higher percentages of body fat. Swimmers are not fighting gravity. Fat does aid in bouncy.

The differences between male and male world records are roughly 12%, 100 metres to Marathon. There is no trend short or longer distances between the genders in running events. View male and female world records in swimming, 50 metres to 1500 metres. The longer the distance, the narrower the margin. Bouncy from fat is aiding women as the distances increase most likely.

Swimmers are more apt to be bigger and stronger than runners. One needs to be large and strong to swim. Runners only want to be large enough to create the desired strength per event. Sprinters need many pounds of pressure placed on the ground to move quickly. The longer the distance for runners, less pounds of pressure required. All runners are fighting gravity.

No idea about a 5k time, but Phelps VO2 max has been measured at 76, so he could probably run a decent 5k with a few months of training

Buy yourself a decent waterproof heart rate monitoring system.

What everyone is eluding are maximum sustainable heart rates and the human body’s physiological adaptations or failures.

Examples:

Power is a naturally born talent, best measured by a very intense, short burst over some distance for only a few measured seconds (“lift” capacity, hand speed, foot turnover, swim stroke rate, etc.).

A highly intense workout (defined however you wish) requires a longer sustained burst of power (strength & speed), so your body’s anaerobic and muscle/connective tissue systems will adapt accordingly. The human body’s anaerobic threshold has a range, which fitness or current capacity is best gaged in maximally how far you can run or swim at an “all out“ (of oxygen) pace, typically about 40 seconds, or how much you can exert (i.e. “lift”) and for how long, until complete exhaustion.

Similarly, your body’s heart & vascular systems ability to pump a maximum velocity of oxygen (aerobic) to depleted tissues is best gaged by a maximal sustained pace at varied intensities, based largely on heart rates. In other words, humans set records or standards at varying heart rates, some great thresholds are the “4 minute”, the “12 minute”, and the “15 minute” variations, but of course we also have tests of more extreme exertion & endurance varieties, aptly named lift, run, or swim “marathons” or ultra-distance.

Therefore, the keys to any great workout consider both intensity (heart rates & recovery periods) & time intervals (sustainable efforts & rest).