noticer of things wrote:
Nope. It's entirely possible to have a course in which the start and finish are within the separation limit and yet exceed the maximum drop limit. I.e., the start and finish are close to each other but the finish is downhill from the start.
I stand corrected.
Thanks.
At your service.
Wow, I had no idea that Meb had that many sub 2:10s. I thought he had maybe 3 or 4... Crazy... That dude really is incredibly consistent.
Since the U.S. has only ever had five native-born men break 2:10 on an unaided course I was curious how things looked for some of the other top marathon nations' top five with the same criteria. Additions/corrections welcome.
U.S.A.
2:06:17 - Ryan Hall London 2008
2:09:32 - David Morris Chicago 1999
2:09:35 - Jerry Lawson Chicago 1997
2:09:38 - Ken Martin New York 1989
2:09:41 - Alan Culpepper Chicago 2002
Kenya
2:03:38 - Patrick Makau Berlin 2011
2:03:42 - Wilson Kipsang Frankfurt 2011
2:04:27 - Duncan Kibet Rotterdam 2009
2:04:27 - James Kwambai Rotterdam 2009
2:04:40 - Emmanuel Mutai London 2011
Ethiopia
2:03:59 - Haile Gebrselassie Berlin 2008
2:05:18 - Tsegaye Kebede Fukuoka 2009
2:05:23 - Lelisa Feyisa Rotterdam 2010
2:05:25 - Bazu Worku Berlin 2010
2:05:44 - Getu Feleke Amsterdam 2010
Morocco
2:05:27 - Jaouad Gharib London 2009
2:05:30 - Abderrahim Goumri London 2008
2:05:38 - Khalid Khannouchi London 2002 (changed to US citizenship)
2:06:46 - Abdelkader El Mouaziz Chicago 2002
2:06:48 - Rachid Kisri Paris 2009
Japan
2:06:16 - Toshinari Takaoka Chicago 2002
2:06:51 - Atsushi Fujita Fukuoka 2000
2:06:57 - Takayuki Inubushi Berlin 1999
2:07:13 - Atsushi Sato Fukuoka 2007
2:07:35 - Taisuke Kodama Beijing 1986
Spain
2:06:52 - Julio Rey Hamburg 2006
2:07:23 - Fabian Roncero Rotterdam 1999
2:07:34 - Antonio Pena Lake Biwa 2001
2:07:42 - Jose Rios Lake Biwa 2004
2:07:48 - Francisco Javier Cortes Hamburg 2001
South Korea
2:07:20 - Lee Bong Ju Tokyo 2000
2:07:49 - Kim Yi Yong Rotterdam 1999
2:08:30 - Ji Young Joon Daegu 2009
2:08:47 - Hwang Young Cho Beppu-Oita 1992
2:08:49 - Baek Seung Do Tokyo 2000
Italy
2:07:22 - Stefano Baldini London 2006
2:07:52 - Giacome Leone Lake Biwa 2001
2:08:02 - Albercio Di Cecco Rome 2005
2:08:33 - Danilo Goffi Rotterdam 1998
2:08:49 - Francesco Ingargiola Roma 2000
And for comparison, foreign-born Americans
2:05:38 - Khalid Khannouchi London 2002
2:08:56 - Abdi Abdirahman Chicago 2006
2:09:13 - Meb Keflezighi New York 2011
2:09:21 - Alberto Salazar Fukuoka 1983
(who is the fifth?)
I don't have time to look up Brazil, Eritrea, Portugal, South Africa etc. Interesting to compare the different countries, though.
noticer of things wrote:
And for comparison, foreign-born Americans
2:05:38 - Khalid Khannouchi London 2002
2:08:56 - Abdi Abdirahman Chicago 2006
2:09:13 - Meb Keflezighi New York 2011
2:09:21 - Alberto Salazar Fukuoka 1983
(who is the fifth?)
I think it would be this one:
2:10:29 Mark Plaatjes Los Angeles 1991
Great Britain
2:07:13 - Steve Jones
2:08:33 - Charlie Spedding2:08:36 2:08:36 - Richard Nerurkar
2:08:52 - Paul Evans
2:09:08 - Geoff Smith
Thanks for putting the top 5 lists together.
My first reaction is that it is shocking that the US is so far behind not just Kenya and Ethiopia but every other nation that you listed as well - all of which are tiny by comparison with the US and would not seem to have any innate genetic advantage (as many claim that the East African nations do). Take out Hall and we do not have a single native-born athlete who could even break the top 5 in any of these countries - some with populations less than one sixth the size of the US. Wow!
noticer of things wrote:
I don't have time to look up Brazil, Eritrea, Portugal, South Africa etc. Interesting to compare the different countries, though.
Brazil
2:06:05 Ronaldo da Costa - Berlin (1) 1998
2:06:34 Marilson dos Santos - London (4) 2011
2:08:31 Vanderlei Cordeiro de Lima - Tokyo (2) 1998
2:08:55 Luiz Antônio dos Santos - Rotterdam (6) 1997
2:09:36 Eder Moreno Fialho - Chicago (6) 1999
Interesting how strong Brazil was in the the late 1990's.
da Costa broke a 10 year old World Record in 1998.
Total Knob wrote:
fglrty wrote:still point to point you bafoon.
noticer of things is right, you are wrong. Deal with it.
BTW, if you are going to question someone's intelligence, it is better if you don't put your own shortcomings on display; the word is "buffoon", from the Italian "buffare".
Where's you're sense of humour?
The spaniards and italians should be removed together with the
Moroccans. They are dopers.
It looks like 78 different Kenyans ran sub 2:10 this past year alone.
I had a little time on my hands, so here are some additions thanks in part to UK is OK and asdgfh. Together with my previous list I think this makes every country that has had at least five native-born men go sub-2:10 on an unaided course. Australia and Poland were close with four each. Additons/corrections welcome as always.
Brazil
2:06:05 - Ronaldo da Costa Berlin 1998
2:06:34 - Marilson dos Santos London 2011
2:08:31 - Vanderlei Cordeiro de Lima Tokyo 1998
2:08:55 - Luiz Antônio dos Santos Rotterdam 1997
2:09:36 - Eder Moreno Fialho Chicago 1999
South Africa
2:06:33 - Gert Thys Tokyo 1999
2:06:55 - Hendrick Ramaala London 2006
2:07:06 - Ian Syster London 2002
2:07:28 - Josiah Thugwane Fukuoka 1997
2:08:07 - David Tsebe Berlin 1992
Portugal
2:06:36 - Antonio Pinto London 2000
2:07:12 - Carlos Lopes Rotterdam 1985
2:07:51 - Domingos Castro Rotterdam 1997
2:08:33 - Manuel Matias Kyongju 1994
2:08:55 - Luis Jesus Paris 2006
Great Britain
2:07:13 - Steve Jones Chicago 1985
2:08:33 - Charlie Spedding London 1985
2:08:36 - Richard Nerurkar London 1997
2:08:52 - Paul Evans Chicago 1996
2:09:08 - Geoff Smith New York 1983
Eritrea
2:07:27 - Yared Asmeron Chunchon 2011
2:07:28 - Samuel Tsegay Tesfemariam Amsterdam 2011
2:07:34 - Yonas Kifle Amsterdam 2007
2:08:13 - Yared Dagnaw Sharew Eindhoven 2010
2:09:24 - Abraham Tadesse Berlin 2010
Tanzania
2:08:01 - Juma Ikangaa New York 1989
2:08:01 - Samson Ramdhani London 2003
2:08:32 - Gidamis Shahanga Berlin 1990
2:08:51 - Zebedaiyo Bayo New York 1998
2:08:57 - John Nada Saya Milan 2001
Mexico
2:08:30 - Dionisio Ceron London 1995
2:08:46 - Andres Espinoza Berlin 2003
2:08:57 - Alejandro Cruz Chicago 1988
2:09:12 - Rodolfo Gomez Tokyo 1983
2:09:14 - Isidro Rico Kyongju 1994
Germany
2:08:47 - Jorg Peter Tokyo 1988
2:09:03 - Michael Heilmann Hiroshima 1985
2:09:23 - Christophe Herle London 1985
2:09:45 - Stephen Freigang Berlin 1990
2:09:55 - Waldemar Cierpinski Montreal 1976
Russia
2:09:07 - Aleksey Sokolov Dublin 2007
2:09:16 - Leonid Shvetsov Prague 1997
2:09:17 - Yakov Tolstikov London 1991
2:09:32 - Dmitriy Kapitonov Eindhoven 1999
2:09:54 - Aleksey Reunkov Frankfurt 2011
noticer of things wrote:
Let's cut out aided courses (downhill and/or point-to-point) and see how it looks:
4. Ryan Hall - 2:06:17 London 2008
7. Ryan Hall - 2:08:04 Chicago 2011
8. Ryan Hall - 2:08:24 London 2007
16. Ryan Hall - 2:09:02 Olympic Trials 2007
25. David Morris - 2:09:32 Chicago 1999
26. Jerry Lawson - 2:09:35 Chicago 1997
28. Ken Martin - 2:09:38 New York 1989
31. Alan Culpepper - 2:09:41 Chicago 2002
Only five U.S.-born men have ever broken 2:10 on an unaided course.
also ritz has broken 2:10 twice 2:07.47 in 2012 and 2:09.38 in 2013.
douglas burke wrote:
noticer of things wrote:Let's cut out aided courses (downhill and/or point-to-point) and see how it looks:
4. Ryan Hall - 2:06:17 London 2008
7. Ryan Hall - 2:08:04 Chicago 2011
8. Ryan Hall - 2:08:24 London 2007
16. Ryan Hall - 2:09:02 Olympic Trials 2007
25. David Morris - 2:09:32 Chicago 1999
26. Jerry Lawson - 2:09:35 Chicago 1997
28. Ken Martin - 2:09:38 New York 1989
31. Alan Culpepper - 2:09:41 Chicago 2002
Only five U.S.-born men have ever broken 2:10 on an unaided course.
also ritz has broken 2:10 twice 2:07.47 in 2012 and 2:09.45 in 2013.
UK is OK wrote:
Great Britain
2:07:13 - Steve Jones
2:08:33 - Charlie Spedding2:08:36 2:08:36 - Richard Nerurkar
2:08:52 - Paul Evans
2:09:08 - Geoff Smith
This list is missing Derek Clayton.
douglas burke wrote:
noticer of things wrote:Let's cut out aided courses (downhill and/or point-to-point) and see how it looks:
4. Ryan Hall - 2:06:17 London 2008
7. Ryan Hall - 2:08:04 Chicago 2011
8. Ryan Hall - 2:08:24 London 2007
16. Ryan Hall - 2:09:02 Olympic Trials 2007
25. David Morris - 2:09:32 Chicago 1999
26. Jerry Lawson - 2:09:35 Chicago 1997
28. Ken Martin - 2:09:38 New York 1989
31. Alan Culpepper - 2:09:41 Chicago 2002
Only five U.S.-born men have ever broken 2:10 on an unaided course.
also ritz has broken 2:10 twice 2:07.47 in 2012 and 2:09.38 in 2013.
you're responding to a 3 year old thread.
FWIW, New york is point-to-point.
douglas burke wrote:
noticer of things wrote:Let's cut out aided courses (downhill and/or point-to-point) and see how it looks:
4. Ryan Hall - 2:06:17 London 2008
7. Ryan Hall - 2:08:04 Chicago 2011
8. Ryan Hall - 2:08:24 London 2007
16. Ryan Hall - 2:09:02 Olympic Trials 2007
25. David Morris - 2:09:32 Chicago 1999
26. Jerry Lawson - 2:09:35 Chicago 1997
28. Ken Martin - 2:09:38 New York 1989
31. Alan Culpepper - 2:09:41 Chicago 2002
Only five U.S.-born men have ever broken 2:10 on an unaided course.
also ritz has broken 2:10 twice 2:07.47 in 2012 and 2:09.38 in 2013.
You bumped a thread that was dead for over 2 years for that? I'm sure basically every stat used up until now has changed. For instance, Meb now has the most sub 2:10 performances of any American.
Large parts of Rotterdam are below sea level so shouldn't it be considered an aided course? The air pressure would be higher than normal which would make it easier to breathe, the opposite of running at altitude, right?
mo'pak wrote:
UK is OK wrote:Great Britain
2:07:13 - Steve Jones
2:08:33 - Charlie Spedding2:08:36 2:08:36 - Richard Nerurkar
2:08:52 - Paul Evans
2:09:08 - Geoff Smith
This list is missing Derek Clayton.
derek clayton is australian.
i didnt bump this thread, it sure looks like i did as all the previous comments were from 2011, maybe whoever bumped this thread had their post deleted.