WSOP, bad beats, great hands

I found ya. Good start.

Well I made a dumb move and went out after playing for 90 minutes. thankfully I made my money back and then some in another tourney.

Does anyone know a website that has good coverage of the WSOP? What are the TV times?

That's what I would love to know. I would have thought it would be live on ESPN considering how much the air last year's tournament.

Live? You're kidding? A poker tourney is quite boring. Many long 12-18 hour days. Only when packaged in the editing room does it become interesting.

2004 World Series Of Poker

Sat-Fri May 22-28, 2004

Event #33 Day 1

No Limit Texas Hold?em Championship

$10,000 BUY-IN $10,000 in chips

Players: 2,576

Prize Pool:

Places Paid - Table - 225 Places

1st Final Table $5,000,000

2nd Final Table $3,500,000

3rd Final Table $2,500,000

4th Final Table $1,500,000

5th Final Table $1,100,000

6th Final Table $800,000

7th Final Table $675,000

8th Final Table $575,000

9th Final Table $470,400

10th -12th 2nd Table $373,000

13th -15th 2nd Table $275,000

16th -18th 2nd Table $175,000

19th - 27th 3rd Table $120,000

28th - 36th 4th Table $80,000

37th - 45th 5th Table $60,000

46th - 54th 6th Table $45,000

55th - 63rd 7th Table $35,000

64th - 72nd 8th Table $30,000

73rd - 81st 9th Table $25,000

82nd - 90th 10th Table $20,000

91st - 99th 11th Table $20,000

100th - 108th 12th Table $20,000

109th - 117th 13th Table $15,000

118th - 126th 14th Table $15,000

127th - 135th 15th Table $15,000

136th - 144th 16th Table $15,000

145th - 153rd 17th Table $15,000

154th - 162nd 18th Table $15,000

163rd - 171st 19th Table $15,000

172nd - 180th 20th Table $15,000

181st - 189th 21st Table $10,000

190th - 198th 22nd Table $10,000

199th - 207th 23rd Table $10,000

208th - 216th 24th Table $10,000

217th - 225th 25th Table $10,000

A World Series of Poker Update

"After Day One"

The main event of the 2004 World Series of Poker has surpassed even the most optimistic of projections. Months ago, the "1200" figure was flaunted, as though the prospect of one-thousand two-hundred poker players vying for poker's world championship was brazen forecast. Most predictions were raised when poker players literally blew the doors off the Horseshoe Casino at the start of the 35th annual World Series of Poker. Preliminary gold bracelet events that attracted only a few hundred players a few years earlier suddenly drew 600, 700, 800, or more entries. It was an alarming sign ? the first wave of an oncoming hurricane of bodies and bankrolls that would finally hit the Horseshoe at 1:00 pm on Saturday, May 22nd ? the official first day of the championship event.

Days before the main event was scheduled to begin, projections were raised upwards to "1800" then "1900." Then, tournament executives and organizers began preparing for a near mythical number -- two thousand poker players. It was the equivalent of preparing a seaside bungalow for a fierce storm about to come.

The hurricane finally crashed into the Horseshoe Casino in downtown Las Vegas when a staggering 2,576 poker players ? male and female, old and young, amateur and pro, from counties scattered all over the globe ? flooded into the World Series of Poker at the start of the tournament. The number of entries was so overwhelming that "Day One" had to be broken down into two divisions ? a two-day flight to whittle the number down to a more manageable 1,100 (or so) poker players. Imagine, here we are two full days into the main event, and there are still nearly 300 more players than started the World Series of Poker last year.

The World Series of Poker has become so big and so enormously successful that it's nearly to the point where it's no longer either controllable or predictable. Like a wild tiger bursting out of its cage, the tournament has become gaming's equivalent of holding soccer's world championship in an arena where seating is severely limited. Sure -- it might be possible to sell millions of tickets, but there are only so many people that can fit into one space to witness a sporting event. In a sense, the World Series of Poker has become a victim of its own monumental success ? held in a nostalgic but hopelessly outdated facility that simply can't accommodate the popular demand for poker, from either the players' or the spectators' point of view.

But, the Horseshoe tries. Does it ever.

Parsing over the 120 tables scattered across two floors of the Horseshoe, an acre of felt stretching from the valet parking entrance at First and Ogden all the way out the front glass doors facing Fremont Street, the famous names and familiar faces are quickly lost in a vast sea of unrecognized, largely unknown competitors. Every poker player who comes to the World Series has a unique story to tell and it would be impossible to justice to all the human drama that is played out across the green felt tables here at the World Series. Sadly, all but a very few of these players will bust out and leave as they came ? with high hopes and unfulfilled dreams of fortune and glory. Their stories will never be told, nor heard.

But there are a few exceptions. After Day One, here are a few of the more interesting highlights at this year's World Series of Poker:

The current chip leader is Mike Laing from Las Vegas ? with 129,425. Also known as "The Clown Prince of Poker," Laing is literally playing on his last leg. He enjoyed a stellar run in poker tournaments during the mid-90s, but has fallen on hard times in recent years. Laing has come close to hitting "railbird status," a pejorative tag that essentially means missing of action. No one doubts Laing's natural card talent. The question is ? can he survive another day with what seems to be such a reckless style of play? All eyes are on Laing as we enter Day Two.

One of the most interesting stories from the first round was the "Lady from Spain," named Maria ? who sat downstairs at table 48. Maria spoke no English. She had never played poker before. But, she decided to enter the World Series of Poker. Incredibly, she had the chip lead at her table after eight hours of play. However, she finally played one hand too many and busted out about midnight on Day One.

Celebrities flocked to this year's World Series ? including actors James Woods, Toby Maquire, and Norm McDonald. Although all three made it past the dinner break, none survived the first day.

Table 57 was the "action" table of the tournament. One hand featured four players going "all in." Paul Kraus was the beneficiary of all the loose play. He comes into Day Two second in chips to Laing ? with 127,275.

Defending world poker champion Chris Moneymaker went out a few hours into the tournament. After the defeat, Moneymaker got up from his seat, walked out of the poker room, and entered a hotel elevator. "See you next year," he said as the doors closed and an ESPN television crew captured Moneymaker's final annotation as the reigning champ.

Last year's runner up, Sammy Farha was at ESPN's "feature table." Six hours into the tournament, he was eliminated. He was disappointed, but not angry. Fahra said that he could not play "(his) game" because he never acquired any chips. "They'll call you down with anything," Farha remarked.

Former world champions who are still alive past the first day include: "Amarillo Slim" Preston (1972), Doyle Brunson (1976-77), Tom McEvoy (1983), Johnny Chan (1987-88), Phil Hellmuth (1989), Dan Harrington (1995), Scotty Nguyen (1998), Chris "Jesus" Ferguson (2000), and Robert Varkonyi (2002).

More females played in this year's main event than ever before. It's estimated that nearly 100 women entered the main event. This figure represents more poker players ? both male and female -- than entered the main event of all the previous championship events, until 1979.

Sal Iacono, a.k.a. "Cousin Sal" from ABC's Jimmy Kimmel Show, entered the World Series of Poker as a television stunt. No one, least of all Cousin Sal expected he'd be sitting here with chips entering Day Two. With ABC's camera's rolling, Cousin Sal ? decked out in a crazy shirt and giant oversized blue glasses, managed to run his starting 10,000 in chips up to 35,650. If Cousin Sal survives, it will be interesting to see how the spectacle changes from a gag to a serious competition with huge personal and financial undertones. Question: If Cousin Sal wins, does he get to keep the $5 million?

Speaking of $5 million, that's the payout for first prize. The figure is twice as much as was awarded to last year's winner (a paltry $2.5 million). The table may not be large enough to accommodate all the bundles of 100s. This year, second place gets $3.5 million. Third place takes 2.5 million. Fourth place gets $1.5 million. Fifth place gets $1.1 million. To put this into proper context ? the winner will automatically become the all-time leading money winner in WSOP history. The fifth place finisher will take home more prize money than Stu Ungar received, when he won his third world poker championship back in 1997. In all, 225 places will be paid $10,000 or more.

The prize pool for this event alone is a staggering $24,214,400 ? a figure that no one could possibly have imagined, even recently. This brings up even more important questions about how to manage and accommodate the thousands of poker players who will certainly flock to Las Vegas to play in future World Series of Poker events.

Odds are, the final table of this year's World Series of Poker will be filled with many new faces. No chip leader after Day One has ever proceeded to win the championship. The greatest performance ever in Day One was John Bonetti, who in 1993 finished the day with over $500,000 in chips (a record unlikely ever to be broken). That said, here are the chip leaders going into Day Two:

MIKE LAING 129,525

PAUL KRAUS 127,275

CHUCK AGNEW 107,175

TEDDY TUIL 105,075

DAVIN ANDERSON 103,600

TIMOTHY WHITE 102,325

All other players have less than 100,000 in chips. There are 1,108 players remaining in the tournament. Day Two of the 2004 World Series of Poker championship event begins at 12 noon.

I had no idea the good doctor was a poker player. I'll have to ask him about it next time I see him, but hopefully I can manage to stay out of his office this summer.

I wonder if he knows of any good games in the fairfield county area.

'mo, if you don't mind me calling you that, you don't think that you may be encouraging gambling to all our younger browsers of the boards?

Gotta be cognizant of the audience, always.

BTW, moneymaker is no fluke. Watch him play sometime.

If poker is gambling then life is gambling. In life you do the best with what you're dealt, just as in poker. I am an avid poker player but you'll never find me buying a lotto ticket or playing craps/roulette/slots. That is real gambling.

And Moneymaker was a fluke. I have watched him play. I watched him reraise all-in over Humberto Brenes' 70k bet on a flop of K92 with 88 only to spike an 8 and take out Brenes' AA. I also watched him CALL all-in against Phil Ivey on the turn only to successfully draw a boat on the river.

Moneymaker is a good poker player. I wouldn't want to play him, but I do not think he is nearly as good as, say, T.J. Cloutier or many other players. The odds were against him multiple times when he put all or most of his chips at risk and he managed to suck out every time. But maybe he has learned since then.

Observerguy1 wrote:

'mo, if you don't mind me calling you that, you don't think that you may be encouraging gambling to all our younger browsers of the boards?

Gotta be cognizant of the audience, always.

BTW, moneymaker is no fluke. Watch him play sometime.

I explicitly differentiate the difference between gambling and playing. Gambling is sad. Playing is not.

Moneymaker is terrible. In last years series he made at least a half dozen "on tilt" plays that were not justifiable at all. That's just what was shown during the five hours that was broadcast. Moneymaker was also the best thing to happen to poker, because the guppies can now justify their bad play with tales of Moneymaker's win. Note: the last two WSOP champs where eliminated on the first day of the return year by making a big no-no mistake in tourney play, going all in early. The objective of tourney play is capital preservation. Learn to lay down the big pairs and you'll consistantly advance. It doesn't matter than you're a 80 or 84 percent winner. That means you are a 15-20 percent loser too. When you lose all of your chips it's over. During the course of a long tourney like WSOP you will be dealt big pairs many times. If you go all-in many times you will be wiped out. The math says so. Going all-in repitively is similar to the Martingale scheme of wagering. It will work for a while, but in the end you are guaranteed to lose.

There's a reason why many of the best players don't even show up at the table for hours on the first day. They are guaranteed to advance in the standings, while only paying a small rent (blinds).

As Lancey Howard was fond of saying ... "I guess thats what its all about, making the wrong move at the right time"

Moneymaker was saved many times last year from poor bets with great pulls on the turn and river. You need a great deal of luck and skill to win, but he used up a lifetime's worth of luck last year.

Carnivore 69 wrote:

Moneymaker was saved many times last year from poor bets with great pulls on the turn and river. You need a great deal of luck and skill to win, but he used up a lifetime's worth of luck last year.

Exactly. You cannot win without "hitting." but to finish in the money on a regular basis requires skill. If you multiplied the probabilites out for all of the suck-outs Moneymaker made, the number would be infinitesimally small. Winning poker isn't flashy, in fact, it's quite boring.

Abe Mosseri plays in an Upper Westside game. Supposed to be the best game in the city.

Chip count going into Day 4:

Scroll down to see the alphabetical listing

First Name Last Name Chip Count Table Seat

ABE MOSSERI $335,300 98 1

EDUARD SCHARF $311,600 110 7

CHUCK AGNEW $302,500 104 7

GREG RAYMER $297,300 118 3

MARK WILDS $292,800 93 4

DANIEL ALAEI $281,000 90 6

SAM LIBICKI $268,100 100 3

BRAD PIERCE $264,900 98 6

ANTONIO SALORIO $250,500 110 4

J.C. TRAN $233,700 89 9

JOHN MURPHY $229,500 100 9

FRANK BRABEC $227,800 119 4

ROSE RICHIE $225,400 107 4

DAN BIGELOW $224,900 117 6

V SENTHILKUMAR $224,200 100 4

JESS KAUFMANN $224,000 119 2

ROBERT DANIEL $211,300 102 9

BEHMAN ZAKERI $210,000 108 7

KEVIN O CONNELL $205,100 113 2

JULIAN GARDNER $202,500 114 3

MARCEL LUSKE $201,000 93 1

HENRIK OLSEN $200,900 116 7

DEWEY ARCHER $190,300 111 4

DAVID ANGEL $190,100 94 3

ELI ELEZRA $190,000 118 9

DAVE SCHARF $189,700 117 9

BO SEHISTEDT $181,700 90 3

DAVID WILLIAMS $180,400 111 6

ANDY CRACCHIOLO $179,100 117 5

ERIC VAN DER BURG $178,600 108 6

JASON SAGLE $177,600 115 7

MATT DEAN $177,200 101 2

KEN BORROR $176,700 91 4

PAUL KRAUS $173,200 99 2

BURTON BOUTIN $171,600 102 3

FRANK RUSSOMANNO $170,200 108 4

RANDY HOLLAND $168,900 105 6

JEFFREY CALKINS $167,100 107 7

GARTH WEEKS $165,400 101 4

JOHN ESPOSITO $164,700 93 2

LUCIENNE ROKACH $158,400 96 8

BLAIR RODMAN $157,900 101 7

PAUL MACREADY $153,100 113 7

TOBIAS PERSSON $152,900 94 9

THOMAS HAMMOND $149,900 93 5

GARY JONES $149,900 113 8

TODD RUPERT $149,200 109 7

DESMOND PORTANO $148,100 103 6

KEVIN SCHAFFEL $146,600 108 3

DAN HARRINGTON $142,000 119 9

SCOTT CARPENTER $141,500 96 5

TONY ABESAMIS $139,300 110 2

ROBERT JARRETT $138,800 92 6

LEE WATKINSON $138,100 105 7

YARIM LIMOR $137,300 99 9

BEN JOHNSON $137,000 117 2

KEN EVANOWSKI $135,100 115 8

DOYLE BRUNSON $133,300 95 8

WILLIAM ERICKSON $133,300 102 6

LARRY ANDERSON $132,000 99 5

MARIO ZELEDON $129,900 92 5

PAUL NOBLES $128,100 97 9

PATRICK OCONNOR $128,100 104 5

CHRIS FERGUSON $127,000 104 9

ALEX BRENES $126,200 101 8

STEPHEN BARTLETT $125,600 98 3

THOMAS BOHMER $125,600 106 3

DAVIN ANDERSSON $124,700 93 6

GUS HANSEN $123,100 114 9

CRAIG CRIVELLO $120,000 119 7

MOJI SEYEDIN $119,800 96 1

SALEEM TAWIL $119,600 112 5

KOSTAS ANGELOUDIS $118,700 102 7

PAUL WESTLEY $118,400 117 4

VINH TRUONG $117,800 103 9

MIKE MORAITIS $117,700 118 5

ROBERT FIKAC $116,800 90 5

PETER MOORE $115,800 91 2

RAYMOND DAVIS $114,800 115 1

CHARLES BUFFALO $114,700 110 5

PAUL JACKSON $114,700 92 9

MARTIN FEIJO $113,100 117 1

MATTHEW HILGER $110,000 118 4

RICHIE TOMMAN $110,000 89 8

PETER GIORDANO $109,700 110 6

AL KRUX $107,500 107 6

GAVIN SMITH $106,700 101 5

UNKNOWN - $106,000 109 2

PAUL NORTH $105,300 99 7

MICHAEL MCCLAIN $104,700 100 2

DANIEL LARSSON $104,200 113 9

ROBERT HARTMANN $101,700 96 6

ROBERT OHL $100,800 113 6

BRADLEY BERMAN $100,600 112 6

DERICK BARCH $100,400 100 6

RICHARD CORDANI $100,300 112 4

ALI ESLAMI $100,300 116 1

AVIV SHAHAF $98,800 105 5

DEREK TOMKO $98,600 94 5

BENJI GRIMES $96,800 101 9

JOHN PIRES $96,800 110 3

MARKUS FEURLE $96,400 90 9

CURT KOHLBERG $93,900 115 2

PHILLIP GORDON $93,300 109 3

DANIEL GRIFFITH $93,100 115 9

GEORGE THOMAS HUBER $93,000 90 4

DANIEL ADELSON $92,400 100 7

ROBERT FOGARTY $91,800 89 4

MATTIAS ANDERSSON $91,300 114 2

JOHN SHECKHERD $90,500 93 3

DUNG NGUYEN $89,800 100 5

KEVIN BOTT $89,000 105 8

HUNG LA $88,700 97 2

SHAWN SILBER $88,500 105 9

JONATHAN BROOKS $88,400 107 3

GREG BLAU $87,900 103 2

BOBBY WILLIS $85,400 105 1

GEORGE YOUKHANNA $85,400 102 1

CRAIG SWICK $84,900 97 3

NEIL CHANNING $84,300 100 8

BILL EDLER $83,500 103 3

PETER STERNS $82,900 102 4

NILS PAULSEN $81,800 98 9

BRETT EHART $81,700 95 3

JOHN SHIPLEY $80,900 103 1

JAMES HOEPPNER $80,500 92 1

TIMOTHY WHITE $80,400 94 6

MORAD QUSHQAR $79,400 95 7

DANNY KARANGELOVSKI $78,200 105 4

RICHARD OSBORNE $78,000 99 3

DAVID ULLIOTT $77,900 92 2

CHUCK PACHECO $77,200 90 8

JACK ELKJER $76,300 94 7

SARGON RUYA $75,700 104 2

PATRI FRIEDMAN $75,200 105 2

DONNY ARIEL $74,800 113 1

GEORGE ABDALLAH $73,900 114 7

A. VAN NGUYEN $73,300 95 1

MATT LEFKOWITZ $73,200 106 5

YASER AL-KELIDDAR $72,600 118 8

KEVIN KELLER $72,200 112 7

TONY NG $71,500 108 5

WILLIAM BRINDISE $71,400 106 2

CARLOS WARREN $71,400 112 9

MELVEN PHILLIPS JR $71,200 91 6

BRYAN BEVIS $70,900 91 1

STUART WHEELER $70,500 93 8

PHILLIP MARMORSTEIN $70,400 119 6

JUHA HELPPI $68,900 94 8

STEPHEN LOTT $68,400 103 4

TRI VAN $68,200 106 8

EARL ODOM $67,400 91 3

JEFF FREEDMAN $67,100 109 9

MICHAEL PINO $66,300 104 6

DAVID WEISBERGER $66,000 106 6

DENIS ETHIER $65,000 106 9

ARTHUR LORING $64,300 92 3

HOWARD ANDREW $63,500 111 2

PETER DAMATO $63,400 112 3

ROB HOLLINK $63,400 113 4

JAY BATTENBERG $62,000 110 1

MARK WEITZMAN $61,800 118 2

PAT MEXAL $61,600 89 6

OYSTEIN HALLAND $61,300 109 1

MIKE MATUSOW $61,300 94 1

ANDY MILLER $61,000 103 8

JOSH ARIEH $60,500 98 4

MICHAEL BREAULT $60,500 107 5

ERIK VILLAND $60,500 104 1

ORJAN GRONMO $60,000 97 1

PHILIP TOM $59,600 91 7

BOBBY CHEUNG $59,500 97 7

DANI POURAT $57,800 106 1

MATT STODOLA $57,700 112 8

SHREENIWAS KELKAR $57,500 104 4

DAYNE BAVERMAN $56,800 103 5

BILLY DUARTE $55,800 108 2

AARON OGUS $55,500 106 4

THOM WERTHMANN $54,500 93 7

CHARIDIMOS (HARRY) DEMETRIOU $53,400 112 1

JESSE JEWELL $53,200 102 5

RUSS HAMILTON $52,300 105 3

DON MOSELEY $52,300 118 1

JACOB SPELMAN $52,100 109 5

MATT TREASURE $52,000 93 9

JAN V. SORENSEN $51,500 98 8

HARVEY BUNDY $51,300 116 5

EDWARD FOSTER $51,200 116 8

ADAM GARFINKLE $51,100 111 1

SAMIR ZOUDO $51,100 118 6

DENNIS COLLETTI $51,000 110 8

ONEIL LONGSON $51,000 96 2

ABRAHAM GRAY $50,900 119 1

GREGG TURK $50,800 94 2

CARL QUINTON $50,100 109 6

TOMER BENVENISTI $50,000 97 8

GLENN HUGHES $49,200 114 8

ERIN NESS $49,100 106 7

DAVID PULLEN $48,900 98 5

ALI SARKESHIK $48,900 116 2

JOHN SARCONE $48,700 91 5

MICHAEL FILLAT $47,300 95 6

MICHAEL MCMULLEN $46,700 111 5

LYNN CREWSE $46,100 111 7

TOD SKARECKY $45,700 96 3

KARRIEM ADAMS $45,400 108 1

TOMMY GRIMES $45,000 89 2

ROBERT BOYD $44,800 95 9

ANDREW GOETSCH $44,800 113 5

TALIA KHIO $44,300 101 1

JASON FISHBEIN $44,200 94 4

LEON GARCIA $43,800 119 8

DAVID CUPPS $43,300 109 8

ADAM MARSHALL $41,800 117 3

SCOTT LUNDBERG $41,300 99 6

JEFFREY BURDSALL $41,200 111 3

JAMES GRIMES $41,000 107 8

JORDAN SIEGEL $40,700 116 6

DIDIER LEROY $40,200 119 5

JAN SJAVIK $40,000 89 1

RON FALTINSKY $39,800 116 3

LARRY CAMACHO $39,600 115 6

GABRIEL THALER $38,600 117 8

ROBERT SKUTELSKY $36,700 99 4

PETER HEDLUND $36,300 110 9

PAUL LEE $36,300 100 1

CASEY KASTLE $35,700 102 8

ANTHONY GEORGE $35,500 90 2

CHRIS HEINTSCHEL $35,200 113 3

PATRICK HANLEY $34,600 97 4

QUASIM TIWANA $34,200 108 8

DOC BARRY $34,000 116 4

LOC TRUONG $33,800 102 2

UNKNOWN - $33,800 104 3

RENE OLIVERAS $33,600 89 5

STEVEN GREENBERG $33,200 92 4

POK KIM $33,000 114 1

RICHARD FULLERTON $32,500 96 4

JAMIE OSULLIVEN $32,400 111 9

PAUL MAXFIELD $31,800 95 4

VINCENT NAPOLITANO $31,700 89 7

GREGORY SAWKA $31,600 95 5

BRYAN DILLON $31,500 92 7

JEFF BULL $31,400 90 1

JEFF ROTHSTEIN $31,400 117 7

ANDY CHURCH $31,200 103 7

ERIK SEIDEL $30,700 115 4

RICK TROENDLY $30,700 118 7

RON MCMILLAN $30,000 114 6

AMNON FILIPPI $28,900 101 6

STEVEN CHERVONY $28,600 107 2

LARRY STEPHENS $27,200 98 7

ANDREW WYNN $26,800 119 3

DAVE COMBS $26,100 107 9

JOHN DAVIS $26,100 107 1

WILLIAM KRACKOMBERGER $25,400 115 5

DAN SODA $25,300 104 8

GREG GELLER $25,200 111 8

RALPH MAIR $24,900 115 3

SCOTT MARKS $24,100 116 9

HAMID DASTMALCHI $23,800 91 9

KLEIN BACH $22,700 97 6

DAVID KIM $22,200 99 8

MICHAEL SHUTE $20,600 96 7

GENE TIMBERLAKE $20,000 91 8

TROY REED $17,900 95 2

DEWEY TOMKO $17,300 114 5

AYHAN ALSANCAK $16,800 90 7

PAUL MOORE $15,800 89 3

ALAN KORSON $15,400 98 2

UNKNOWN - $15,000 112 2

GLENN COONEY $14,900 108 9

KENNETH MAUST $14,300 99 1

DANIEL GOLDBERG $13,800 96 9

MICHAEL ZELIN $12,800 97 5

CARLOS FUENTES $9,700 109 4

DAVID KEISER $8,600 92 8

malmo wrote:

Gambling is sad. Playing is not.

I see what you mean. Gambling is borderline or being IN desperation.

Yea, 'moneymaker' take many chances. Some times it works out, most times it doesn\'t.

More in the vein of a boring but successful poker player, I\'m a big Lederer fan. Like his style. No nonsense.

Good luck on the river.

malmo wrote:

Gambling is sad. Playing is not.

I see what you mean. Gambling is borderline or being IN desperation. Playing and gambling still involve money, however.

Yea, 'moneymaker' does take many chances. Some times it works out, most times it doesn't.

More in the vein of a boring but successful poker player, I'm a big Lederer fan. Like his style. No nonsense.

Good luck on the river.

I'm not defending Moneymaker but he isn't as bad as the rap he's getting. I spent last week in Vegas and he was very nice and he knows he isn't in the same league as the top pros. He did qualify in the satellites for the big game and got 10th in the NL Omaha Tournament, that at least says something. He got knocked out early as did some other highly regarded players. To win any tournament you have to win your share of coin flips.

Side note:

I was playing a 10 person satellite at the Golden Nugget. The Nugget is across the street from Binions where the WSOP is played and are taking advantage of the poker boom and the world series and reopened their poker room last month. Gus Hanson, Phil Ivey, Johnny Chan (at this time, there were plenty more) were playing in a 4000/8000 NL game. My table was near theirs and my position on the table had me looking directly at them. There was a huge plasma TV above their head and they were showing a repeat of the World Poker Tour that Gus Hanson won. There were times during the live game that the entire table stopped playing to watch TV. It was bizarre watching Gus watch himself and some of the crazy hands he played and seeing him try to explain his reasoning. Everyone at his table were giving him a hard time.

Hey, why doesn't anyone ever lose at poker? Every jerk-off with web access talks about winning all these hands but how many times did they lose? Even the bad beats are covered with, "oh, but I got him back". Bull. You went on tilt and you ain't half the playa you think you are. Want to impress? Calculate your hourly wage. Even Malmo figured out he wasn't making enough skin to justify the hours spent - sort of like most of the runners here.

GA

GA graduate wrote:

Want to impress? Calculate your hourly wage. Even Malmo figured out he wasn't making enough skin to justify the hours spent - sort of like most of the runners here.

GA

I have a record of every hour I've ever played. My P/L graph is quite steady and upwards. When I say I played professionally, I mean it in every way. Not only did I make money consistently, I can teach anyone (with discipline) how to win at poker. You'd be surprised, even the idiots here can be taught and understand the formula: Expected return = (PROBwin x PAYOFFwin) - (PROBlose x PAYOFFlose). If they can understand that formula, the next step is memorizing the CARDOUTS table/mnemonic. Put those two concepts together, then starting hand selection and flop strategy will get the player to the point of making money even in spite of mistakes.

On every individual bet the casino and the gambler have ALMOST an equal chance of winning or losing at a roulette table. Emphasis on ALMOST equal. A casino's expected return is 5.26 percent (2/38). Whether the casino wins or loses on any individual bet or any roll of the ball is not of concern to the house. Or any given hour, or sometimes day. The theory of large numbers will take over and the casino will get its edge. So to can the poker player.

The poker player, can by design, become the "house." Since poker is a zero sum game between the participants (excluding the "rake") its clear that the skilled players, according to the theory of large numbers, will take money away from the unskilled players. What happens in each individual hand, or hour or day, or sometimes a week (about 2-3 standard deviations) means nothing to the professional. Math is your friend.

Like every thing in nature there will be more unskilled players, much more, than skilled ones. Don't believe me, then look around you every day. In every endeavor there will be the unwashed masses of unskilled supporting the skilled.

I'm not sure where you ever got the idea that "he wasn't making enough to justify the hours spent?" I was. For me, the long hours spent with compulsive personalities in smoky card rooms was more than I ever really desired. I'm by nature, social, and prefer interaction with other people, and a day job allows just that. Poker does not.

I can sit with just as many compulsive personalities, perhaps more, here in just a few minutes a day without the smoke. The pay is a lot lower I'll concede.

I gotta say I have never seen malmo as loquacious and effusive as I have on the game of poker. And I have seen a LOT of malmo posts. Over 1000.

I had no idea he possessed this talent also. His demeanor is downright supportive and positive about the game. Count me among the surprised.