Right on the money conto. I get tired of reading the outright dismissal of anyone over 9:10, on these boards. I coach high school boys and many of the college coaches have the same attitude. The savvy ones however, dig deeper to find out about the training program they come from and possibly the emotional atmosphere the athlete has competed under for their four years.
Developing runners combined with recruiting.
Coaches like Wetmore supplement their recruiting with the development of athletes.
Some coaches seem limited to solely recruiting talent and hoping for the best.
Like him or not, Wetmore is dedicated, sincere, and smart.
Ever been to Boulder, CO? Wow, what a place to train! I'm that doesn't hurt the issue
So I know about "old man mags" and the 15-20mi runs at sub-6 pace on sundays, but what do the other two quality days usually consist of? I'd bet at least one of them is usually long intervals around race pace (mile repeats or whatever), but what's the other? Short intervals? Hills?
great distance program for sure. i love hearing about them. i love how they don't go crazy at the start of races, and charge through the field. i love how kids get better there.
BUT......just like the Oklahoma State thread let's remember:
They are putting just about all, if not all of their scholarships in distance runners. you rarely if ever see any throwers or pole vaulter or hurdlers that aren't on football scholarships.
great program....just hard to compare apples to apples when coaches dismiss an large percentage of the events in the sport.
What he does best is getting the best out of his runners , he makes them believers , its something he picked up from Q. The formula works.
JMSMITH wrote:
High School PRs of the Pac 12 Champs
3rd Medina 4:16/9:13 at altitude (He was pretty good)
6th Wacker 4:16/9:19
9th Bosshard 9:12
13th Thompson 4:22/9:24
15th Moussa 4:08/8:49/14:05 (Outlier to the point of this post)
22nd Medina 4:26/9:30 at altitude
28th Theroux 4:14/9:13
Would you guess that team would win won of the deeper conferences in the country?
Hard work through long high end aerobic running every Sunday (Sub 6 miles for 15 to 20 miles for the varsity guys at 5000-9000 feet elevation) and two other quality days a week. That's their recipe for success. No secret.
This^^. Thanks for compiling this, it is the most obvious piece of evidence to show Wetmores coaching ability. Also, when CU won NCAA's in 2004 they lost Dathan Ritzenhein (pro a year early), Casey Burchill (#3 from season before) due to transfer, and Billy Nelson (16th the year before at NCs, CU#2). Lost their 1-2-3 and still beat heavily favored wisco. The guys who ran on that squad were talented and had good HS PR's, but still they lost their top guys and still won over Solinsky, Bairu, Nelson, Spiker, Teg -a great and talented wisconsin team.
The training has changed quite a bit since the days of RWTB..still the emphasis on quantity and quality running but now more time for recovery and the result has been less injuries for the most part. Either way the results have always been there. It would be interesting to see the high school PRs of Stanford and Oregon's top 7
You just have to read the article to know why
http://www.cubuffs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_LANG=ES_ES&DB_OEM_ID=600&atclid=205324729
He's a real straight shooter when it comes to what we're doing. We were here to run fast, to let our feet do the talking and that's it. It's pretty simple; running is pretty simple.
RWTB is a great book, however, I think the training has changed in the last 13 years.
Wisco choked hardcore in 04. That had a lot to do with. However CU peaks very well. In XC you only have to be the best on one Monday in November. Totally different from football.
Mine Mountain wrote:
Developing runners combined with recruiting.
Coaches like Wetmore supplement their recruiting with the development of athletes.
Some coaches seem limited to solely recruiting talent and hoping for the best.
Like him or not, Wetmore is dedicated, sincere, and smart.
A part of it has to be that he has an ability to generate intense motivation/confidence both on the individual and group level with his words. I believe that he gets people "right" mentally like few others can.
Three reasons in order of importance:
#1 CU has a very good coach.
#2 The majority of the CU scholarship budget goes into distance runners. In no other sponsored collegiate sport does such an unfair disparity exist. The examples are endless. The Buffs may win the NCAA XC title this year on both the men's and women's side (they are that good), but they won't finish in the top 20 on the track (or score more than a handful of points at the PAC12 track meet). Ask Dave Smith how the NCAA Outdoor Track and Field Champs went for the Cowboys.
#3 Boulder. An awesome running town with great community support and good trails. The altitude doesn't hurt, as well.
Will that had a sprinter that qualified for the WCs in the 200.
Stanford's Top 7
1600 and 3200 times unless noted
Chris Derrick: 13:55, 8:48
Jake Riley: FL All American, 9:00
Brendan Gregg: 9:02
Erik Olson: 4:08, 8:55
Joe Rosa: 8:44 (2 mile)
J.T. Sullivan: 4:12, 8:58
Miles Unterreiner: 4:13, 9:02
Oregon's Top 7
Luke Puskedra: 4:06(mile), 8:46 (2mile)
Parker Stinson: 8:54, 29:32
Jeramy Elkaim: 8:46
Lukas Verzbicas: 8:29(2mile), 3:59(mile)
Ryan Pickering: 4:11, 9:12
Cole Watson: 1:52, 3:50 (1500m)
Boru Guyota: 1:52, 3:58(1500m)
Oregon's top 4 is quite impressive based off of high school times. I think all of these coaches are great at developing their talent though. Stanford and Oregon definitely get more talent compared to Colorado however.
NCAA academic departments are ranked solely by the earth shattering research they produce, the publications they generate, and the international awards they earn.
Likewise T&F/XC programs are judged solely by the major medals their atudent-athletes and alums win at major international championships and marathons.
Colorado has produced many World and Olympic champions and medalists over the years including World Champion Mary Decker and World Champion Jenny Barringer amongst others.
Also give props to #1 USC, #2 UCLA, #3 Texas, and #4 Cal for the number of major T&F/XC medals earned on the international stage.
Andersonz wrote:
What kind of training style does coach Mark Wetmore have his Colorado athletes do? Are they mielage based? Do they do much speed? Is it all about altitude? What is their secret to success?
One simple forumula: 115-130mpw year-in, year-out.
2004 was a HORRIBLE example. I remember posting on these very boards leading up to NCAAs if Wisco slipped, Colorado would win. Schoolmeester and Vaughn were 8:40s in hs. Let me repeat... SCHOOLMEESTER AND VAUGHN RAN IN THE 8:40S IN HS.
Now, Bairu, Teg, Solinsky and Keller (I think it was Keller?)... maybe Nelson too? That's a sick group. But, let's not pretend that Colorado was a bunch of scrubs.
As I recall, my friend Jon Severy was on that Colorado team, and though he may not have been elite in hs, its hard to tell how good he really was as he grew up in Colorado where its pretty hard to post ridiculous times.
So Colorado's top 3 were arguably as good/talented as Wisco's top 3.
And in championship racing, its the 4&5 men that make the difference. If you have 3 studs, maybe they finish a couple of spots off where you want. But your 3/4 can kill you with 20 spot give ups.
Anyone who overlooked Colorado in 2004 had Wisco colored glasses on. Simple as that.
eggs 2.0 wrote:
... #2 The majority of the CU scholarship budget goes into distance runners. In no other sponsored collegiate sport does such an unfair disparity exist. ...
Why is this an "unfair disparity"? It is simply a choice of what they want to emphasize. The downside for these schools, as you noted, is the lack of balance on the track.
Is it "unfair" that other universities focus on providing scholarships to athletes can can run multiple track and/or field events at the expense of their distance programs? Not at all. That is just the way they choose to play the game. Some schools, like Arkansas, have been able to have great success at both. Not many can.
He gets kids who are going to Colorado because they are willing to run a lot of miles and work hard. That type of an athlete has that extra-drive it takes to succeed. This combined with the fact that Wetmore gets it. It is just about strength. Nothing else matters in XC. Why more coaches don't get this, I do not know.
Love to see a CU tee with a picture of Decker and Barringer say "Coulda Shoulda Woulda" to mock ...
What makes you think a lot of other coaches don't get that it is about strength? The college coaches I know do get it. They are still not as good as Colorado.
By the way, I am not sure that CU has as much of their money in distance as you think.