Phillip Hersh Demeaning Ryan Hall

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Why does it have to be an American Coach?

SMD, where is the line between being an overzealous "fan" making an attack on the inability of an athlete to meet some arbitrary goal (fast time, high place, etc), and being a journalist?

Is there a line?

I've encountered a "journalist" like Phil Hersh in my own running journey, and, I have to say, I think it comes down to the pure ego of the writer, and nothing more. There is no professional consideration other than, "will the editor give me five inches or six for a story about running?" The content is purely at the discretion of the writer and his own ego.

There are ways to ask tough questions without demeaning the subject of the interview. Phil Hersh chooses not to do that, while ignoring the reality that there is incredibly deep competition for those top spots and top times, and, unfortunately, our talent pool is not focused on the sport of distance running. Like a lot of writers, Phil Hersh is a bully. Say what you want about me, Phil says, I have a keyboard and distribution, motherfvcker. Until someone checks that power, he'll continue to abuse it.

The original Tribune article that Hersh penned was far more scornful and derogatory toward Hall, but like I said, it's since been revised.

I also read the 2004 article that was linked above and by Hersh's own standard Ryan Hall should garner respect. Hall's been top five in each of the five marathons he's run since the 2008 Olympics. Yet Hersh continues to discredit Hall, obsessively portraying him as apathetic to his standing among international competitors. Every interview I've seen with Hall this week, in no way indicates that he's content to just finish in the top five and be credited as the top American.

You can disagree with his training philosophy and his religious beliefs, but for Hall, both clearly fuel his confidence that he's preparing optimally to compete for the win. The fact that there are a couple of guys better than him in each race isn't proof that Hall lacks the will to win nor should it be used as an ultimatum to invalidate Hall on the international stage.

Hall doesn't have to be the best marathoner in the world to get bigger shoe contracts, bigger appearance fees and more endorsements than a Kenyan. He just has to be the best "American-born" (i.e., white) marathoner. So that's all he is.

OccupyChicago wrote:

The original Tribune article that Hersh penned was far more scornful and derogatory toward Hall, but like I said, it's since been revised.

The original article was here:

but not redirects to the new article. I skimmed it and wish I had saved it on my browser.

Phil is free to criticize Ryan. People are free to criticize Phil. That's how the system works.

The "but are you a top 5 journalists for a top 5 paper" I think is a stupid one. If that's the standard, then the only guys who can criticize Ryan are people who finished ahead or near him in the race.

Here are just three comments I remember (you can quote me) from Hersh's original post-race report that don't appear in the current article.

1. Ryan Hall finished fifth, running an unimpressive

2:08:04.

2. The lead group, which actually contained Hall...

3. Hall, displaying a large USA logo on his singlet, ran

behind the large pack of Africans...

I probably wouldn't think much of this if it weren't for the condescending tone and derogatory remarks Hersh made to Hall at the press conference.

Adding to point smd and kudzurunner made regarding Hall's expectations and perspective on achievement contrasted with that of journalists and fans, Hersh himself provides a fine example. In his pre-race article on Hall, Hersh said, "Now Hall has reached the time in his career when he needs to be the fastest in an international field." Or else what?

Phil Hersh will learn that this type of bias by a reporter/journalist is self policing.

Just like when Jim Gray verbally attacked Pete Rose duirng a "greatest players of all time" award ceromony before a baseball game and then the next night he was on air live to interview a star of a game and the player wouldn't talk to him because of how he treated Pete.

We'll have an American that wins Chicago again one day and that person will probably think twice about talking with Herch, given his combatitive attitude towards American runners.

Phil needs to remember that he should report on the story, not to try and become the story or at least part of it.

OccupyChicago wrote:

Adding to point smd and kudzurunner made regarding Hall's expectations and perspective on achievement contrasted with that of journalists and fans, Hersh himself provides a fine example. In his pre-race article on Hall, Hersh said, "Now Hall has reached the time in his career when he needs to be the fastest in an international field." Or else what?

Exactly. Like among the political chattering class, you'll constantly hear, "Obama needs to show blah blah blah" or "In this debate Rick Perry needs to demonstrate such and such." Says who but you?

You know what's funny - I didn't realize Hersh was from New England and grew up as a Red Sox fan. As one, myself, his articles (and his question/comment to Hall) make WAYY more sense to me now.

Hersh is nasty more than once. I remember in 2008, when there was so much hoopla surrounding Delilah DiCrescenzo (who is from Chicago) because of that song. He was almost gleeful when she bombed out at the Trials, suggesting that was the end of having to pretend she was any good. I don't think he had much to say when she qualified for the World Championships this year.

ttc wrote:

55F at race time, then it climbed a few degrees... Running in "heat"? 85F is heat. 2 of the top 4 PR'd- 1 by 2 mins.

It was a hot day. I can't believe people aren't talking more about this

If you have ever been to Chicago, you know that the beginning of the course is well shaded and then second half is very exposed, temps can rise quickly.

Look up and down the results at guys who are capable of mid 2:1xs and they all ran slow, on average about 3 min slow. I think we all know a friend or two who can run unaffected by the heat, and that same rule holds true for elites. Mosop ran unaffected and very impressively. Hall was affected but is enough of a man that he isn't going to blame the weather on his result in a press conference. It was a good performance by hall, especially considering that he has committed the sin of all competitive running sins, by training on his own.

I agree with this. As much as Phil is probably snickering at all of this and enjoying being news instead of reporting on it, there are also many (far more than you might think) elites reading this and will be more gaudred to and around Phil going forward. The best reporters and journalists are the ones who make their subject feel at ease because that is when they will give them the most indepth information and best stories.

Phil is killing that and thus the start of fall from grace will start.

Some guy reading what others.. wrote:

I agree with this. As much as Phil is probably snickering at all of this and enjoying being news instead of reporting on it, there are also many (far more than you might think) elites reading this and will be more gaudred to and around Phil going forward. The best reporters and journalists are the ones who make their subject feel at ease because that is when they will give them the most indepth information and best stories.

Phil is killing that and thus the start of fall from grace will start.

Meh. Name two other major American newspapers that have full-time writers doing what Hersh does. They pretty much don't have anywhere else to go, especially if running the Chicago Marathon.

There's a perception, rightly or wrongly, that Hall has consistently underperformed and is a bit of a flake. Similarly, there's a perception that Hersh is a dick. Both of these came together this weekend. Both perceptions might be completely false, but I don't think either came from nowhere.

hardset nipples wrote:

This. Where I would diverge is in the fact that Hall merely surrenders to the fact of being a 2:06 marathoner, at best. He doesn't genuinely try to push himself right up to the edge to try to be with and even beat the 2:04 guys. I have never seen in his demeanor a true desire to win and a willingness to take great risks to do so. I don't buy the myopia that times make you a great runner, being a true competitor and a winner counts for far more to me.

Paaalllleeeeaaazzzzeeeee. The runner who runs the race the fastest is the winner. Who is ahead or even where they are at any other point before the finish is irrelevant. EVERY runner should run the race plan that they think will lead to thier fastest possible race on that day.

Hall beat many of the runners who did as you suggested and stayed with the leaders as long as they could, because it wasn't their smartest race tactic.

If Hall had gone with Mosop like you suggest, he would have died and finished alot further back than 5th and 2:08 and they you would have said what a dumb move he made and how he is all washed up.

The problem is that Hirsh and Hall's critics want to say that Hall is doing something "wrong" and if Hall would only do some unspecified thing "right" he would have been competitive with Mosop.

I don't think there's a rational reason to believe that. Would Hall have beaten Mosop if he still trained with Mahon? If he did more sea level speedwork? There's no reason to think that. It's a lot more rational to think that Hall is just never going to run a 2:05 unaided even on his best day. So what is there to criticize? Hall's doing the best he can on a given day.

And if it's fair to criticize Hall for running 2:08, then what about every other marathoner in the US? Because there isn't any other active American runner who can run consistently at Hall's level. If Hall could supposedly run better than 2:08 if he just did everything "right," then everyone else in the US must really be training wrong.

The fastest PR does not always win - that's why they have races. Running smart can beat running fast - ask Meb. Hall has the talent to win, but it's frustrating to see him constantly in the mix, never on top. He seems to be missing the "Survivor" mentality : Outwit Outlast Outplay.

Part of this could stem from different ideas about racing. Hall gives every impression of being someone who would rather be 4th in a PR than win in a slow time. Others care primarily about winning, not times. (Before Boston I asked Gebremariam a version of this and he said he doesn't care if he runs 2:15, as long as he wins.) So Hall's definition of what success yesterday meant differs from that of someone like Hersh, who's thinking primarily in terms of place.

Misunderstandings happen when someone with the Hersh mindset assumes everyone shares his (and is rude while doing so).

Giver of Helpful Advice wrote:

It's time for Hersh to start being serious about his career as a journalist. He's reached the point in his career when he should have been able to win a Pulitzer prize, so he must be pretty disappointed about his failures so far.

Hersh seems to be just phoning it in these days and not reaching the level of journalism that he could reach if he was really trying. Perhaps he needs to take some journalism classes or get some tips about how to be a good reporter from talking to reporters who have won the Pulitzer Prize. They might help him have a less disappointing career as a reporter.

I enjoyed this post.

I'm relatively new to this board and the running community, but a commonality I've noticed in Hersh's reporting is a self-imposed system in which achievement merits acknowledgement. By Hersh's own standards, as set in that 2004 article, Hall deserves the press and respect he generally recieves (based on his performances in the majors).

Hersh can criticize Hall and visa versa. But do so objectively and consistently (without Ivy League condescension) according to the standards you've set. And based on those standards, I don't see a reason for Hersh to demean Hall.

I agree with smd that most rational fans accept the chance of Hall winning a major marathon as low given the depth of African runners. Hersh doesn't seem to though as he abandoned his own standards for loftier ones and then promptly harped on Hall when he failed to meet them. It's not Hersh's job to create parameters that validate Ryan

Hall's career nor is it the job of journalist's to report prejudicially...that's for cable news anchors and op-ed columnist.