Ryan Hall Disappointing

ttc wrote:

Then it means, since becoming self-coached, he's declined (given huge wind-aid in Boston). He used to run stride-for-stride with Geb deep into a race. Oh, I forgot- Letsrun posters aren't results-oriented. I hope he was just ill.

Since becoming self-coached? In the last couple of years before he became self-coached, what did he do that was any better than what he did today? And aside from races in which Geb ran poorly or dropped out, when was Hall ever really competitive with Geb at any distance? (In any event, running with someone "deep into a race" doesn't mean all that much when the race is a marathon. You don't have to be a world-class marathoner to be able to run stride-for-stride with world-class marathoners for 25-30k.)

From what I recall, this was Hall's second-fastest performance ever on a record-quality marathon course, and his third-fastest (out of nine, I think) when aided courses are included. Thinking back over Hall's whole running career, the only stretch in which he seemed (to me) a significantly stronger runner than he is now was from about January 2007 (Houston half) to April 2008 (London) -- a fairly short stretch. Although he hasn't shown the improvement that many seemed to be hoping for over the last several years (and that might have been reasonable after his break-out performance at Houston in 2007, his dominating performance in the Olympic trials later that year, and his aggressive performance against an excellent field in London 2008), he's remained a remarkably consistent performer at the marathon distance. And if he never wins a "major" marathon, never wins an Olympic medal, and never sets a U.S. marathon record, so what? Maybe some fans will be disappointed, and may even declare him to be a failure, but sports fans tend to be that way.

You can not compare the past with the present. The marathon has changed and Hall has not been keeping up with those changes. He is pissing away talent and getting older while doing it. Anyone who can run close to 4 minutes in high school and be consistently running 2:08 or better off of solid training and little racing CAN do better with newer methods and more racing. The marathon is now what the half marathon was 10-15 years ago. It is 26.2 miles and FAST! Look at what Mosop was doing before Chicago. It looked like the training for a half marathon, just more volume. Hall needs to train with the big boys and race shorter distances more often if he ever wants to legitimately get under the 2:05 mark so he can be a real threat. Getting shelled about halfway into the race says he was not ready for how fast the big marathons really are.

Amen! I don't know why the Americans (same is true in track) think they can win major races and compete with the Africans while only doing 2-3 big races a year. You need to hone your RACING skills, which cannot be done in a non-competitive practice situation.

I agree the marathon has changed and that was my point. The top runners are just a lot faster. Mosop, for example, is a 12:54, 26:49 guy.

Geb moved up to the marathon almost a decade ago and in that period has set 2 WRs but never won a major. I think that's an indication of how difficult it is to win one.

The top guys are capable of 2:03 in the right conditions. I'm not convinced Ryan is that fast even if he did all of the training you suggest. He has also been very injury free, considering how many quality marathons he has under his belt in 5 years. Maybe with more intensive training and racing he would have gone the way of Ritz. The fact that he has been so consistent may be an indication that he did compete at his potential.

And unlike Geb, he has always been willing to line up and race against top competition in the majors.

marathonguru wrote:

Amen! I don't know why the Americans (same is true in track) think they can win major races and compete with the Africans while only doing 2-3 big races a year. You need to hone your RACING skills, which cannot be done in a non-competitive practice situation.

"Racing skills" would not have gotten Hall the win today. Being in better shape than Moses Mosop would have. That's not going to happen by racing more, that's going to happen by training more and training smarter. It might not even be possible.

"Racing skills" would have helped. What marathonguru means is that you can not gain certain skills or fitness in training alone. I was not there but(on t.v.) it looked like Hall was off the back grabbing water right when they dropped the pace. He put himself in a bad position and did not have the race fitness to get himself back into the race. A poor move and lack of race oriented training ended his race early.

1234567891011TWELVE! wrote:

"Racing skills" would have helped. What marathonguru means is that you can not gain certain skills or fitness in training alone. I was not there but(on t.v.) it looked like Hall was off the back grabbing water right when they dropped the pace. He put himself in a bad position and did not have the race fitness to get himself back into the race. A poor move and lack of race oriented training ended his race early.

To be honest I don't really understand your point. Yeah, Hall races only 2 marathons a year, along with 2 half marathons in his buildup. But this is pretty consistent with what all the top East Africans are doing. There are some exceptions (such as Mutai racing World XC, Mosop running a 30k WR on the track), but for the most part that's how it works. He also went out of the way and did a road mile this year shortly after Boston. Also, you'd think that at this point in his career Hall has raced enough marathons to have developed the "racing skills" you talk about.

Whether he was racing smart or not largely depends on how he was feeling during the race. The marathon is not at all like the 5000. Success depends on efficiently managing bad patches and judiciously exploiting good ones.

That said, I think the odds are good that Ryan ran a very smart race. He hung at the back of the pack early and got plenty of fluid without interference, he drafted off the others, conserving energy and he didn't go nuts when the big break occurred at 30k. If he had gone then and run - or tried to run - 14:37 for those next 5k we would all be bemoaning his DNF right now. He was not going to beat Moses. No one was going to today. He ran the best race he could if his goal was to finish as high as possible and in as fast a time as possible. Given the day, 5th place 2:08 was about the limit, I think. He ran smart. Unfortunately, for him, running smart means about the same thing that it does to a 2:30 guy. Ryan is great, but he's not a world-beater. Before the race a lot of people thought there were numerous guys with realistic shots at victory. Heck, I was one (I believed Moses BS about being 85%...) Turns out we all were wrong. There was only one guy who who had any chance to win today. It just wasn't Ryan.

Idiot - He is the best USA marathon runner ever.

There are a few guys who showed the way. Ryan Hall was one of them. Put that down in history - idiot.

Hall used to dust 2:08 on fast courses. He used to run next to Geb late into races. Unless he's ill, he's not as good now.

Hall used to dust 2:08 on fast courses. He used to run next to Geb late into races. Unless he's ill, he's not as good now.

ttc wrote:

Hall used to dust 2:08 on fast courses. He used to run next to Geb late into races. Unless he's ill, he's not as good now.

Reading Avacado's Number's response to your last garbled eruption and then your subsequent, more insistent regurgitation of the same crap is like watching a concert pianist demonstrate a complex sonata to someone who, rather than try to play the piece, proceeds to huff about nineteen cubic yards of paint and repeatedly bang his head on the piano keys like the frustrated muppet on "Sesame Street."

Great post. And he can't do this type of training alone. And he may not be capable of handling this I suspect. It could ruin him in 6 months and then he's not even able to be the best American. He has a well-paying career and it would be a risk.

What kind of idiot does not acknowledge the best US marathon runner in history? Oh, I guess the idiot who wants to be his coach?

Ryan Hall showed that US runners can still be competitive in the marathon. Ritz, Rupp, Solinsky, Tegenkamp and Lagat showed that US runners can still be competitive at 5k-10k.

These guys smoked past US record times and put a high bar for future US runners. I hope the next generation steps up to the challenge.

I thought Ryan Hall had a good day. Early in the race, it looked like to me his legs "looked heavier" than normal so I was afraid he would get dropped earlier but he hung in there and came out with a good result. I am glad to see that he persevered and am looking forward to his progress!

Go RYAN!

Bunch of Trolls...who cares if Hall is religious. Get laid.

1234567891011TWELVE! wrote:

Anyone who can run close to 4 minutes in high school and be consistently running 2:08 or better off of solid training and little racing CAN do better with newer methods and more racing.

Can you explain what these revolutionary training methods are and then support the idea that Hall's neglecting these?

He has 5 of the top 10 times run by an American so you need to give the guy some credit. I don't envy the hype around him going into these races. The media machine around him pumps up his rep so sell stuff. Must be hard to live up to the hype.

Ripping on Hall for his performance today is stupid. He ran 2:08 low! The marathon's one hell of a tough race, the distance magnifies being even slightly off your game. He deserves praise for hanging in there and finishing strong, it would've been much easier to phone in the last 12 miles. Plus it was sunny and warm today, conditions that make it impossible for a tall caucasian runner to dissipate heat well enough to run at his potential.