Lagat's comments after beaten by Farah in the 5000m

Snap On wrote:

Need a Definition wrote:

What exactly is a "tool"?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=toolhttp://tinyurl.com/3qbsrvr

Looks a bit like you I imagine.

So, what you are saying is that your imagination has made you a tool? I see.

coach d wrote:

Notice that he did NOT say mileage, which is a message that others here should get. He's talking about the hard work that I think too many US runners try to avoid.

So while others, particularly on letsrun, sit around and whine and make excuses, this is a guy that just broke his own AR...and HE is talking about WORKING HARDER. I'll bet Allyson Felix is thinking the same thing.

All you need to know about why some people win...and some people don't

Coach D, black runners, don't need your kkk ass, to talk for them. Ass hold notise he is 36, (a sub master runner), running with open runners. Lagat could have ran, in the 35 to 39 master race in Sac. Were do you coach ass white, and how fast are you?

mathias wrote:

of course the answer to improving your strength a few weeks out from the goal race isn't mileage. No rational person on lets run says you should increase your mileage right before a race. Increasing your strength right before a race should be done exactly how he said it should. He will likely increase his mileage after he has recovered from this year's WC if he thinks its necessary.

It is true that it would be a little late to increase his mileage, but he could still do 2-4 weeks of it, and then taper. OR, the traditional answer from the high mileage camp, he could go out for a couple of long runs like the lydiard guys used to do on the Waitakere route. But he ISN'T.

The last sentence of your post doesn't make any sense, of course he will increase his mileage if he thinks it necesarry (and that's a big IF).

coach d wrote:

Notice that he did NOT say mileage, which is a message that others here should get. He's talking about the hard work that I think too many US runners try to avoid.

Please name the US runners who are avoiding hard work? PUH-LEEZE?

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Guys, coach b has a point. American distance runners have gotten away from the low milage approach to running that made them so successful all through the 90's and early 00's. Bekele runs low milage, Geb ran low milage, hell, even Pre was known for his 30 mile weeks. It's time to wake up and realize that Americans are just pussing out of REAL training.

long dong silver wrote:

Clearly, Lagat doesn't believe that high mileage is the most efficient way to get strength for a 5000m runner.

Yeah, the he's clearly doing everything wrong. He's probably staring at his gold medals right now in tears searching for someone like you to give him such great and insightlful advice!

Lagat's not putting in 120 mile weeks, but he's doing his fair share.

Cook isn't a low mileage guy.

Wheating has been running all of five years. His mileage is appropriate given his background.

Uceny's running plenty by middle distance standards, and a good deal more than when she left Cornell four years ago.

Barringer's in line with middle distance runners, too.

I don't know much about Alice's training program, but Coach Cruz was a guy who averages 70 miles a week.

Besides, there's no great revelation here: talented people can run fast. There are men talented enough that if they ran 50 miles a week and did some reasonable workouts, they'll be sub four minute milers. Runners somewhat less talented will need double that volume to add all the physiological components they need to break that barrier.

malmo wrote:

coach d wrote:

Notice that he did NOT say mileage, which is a message that others here should get. He's talking about the hard work that I think too many US runners try to avoid.

Please name the US runners who are avoiding hard work? PUH-LEEZE?

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Oh, he knows exactly what he is talking about. He just likes to stir the pot because it is the only amusement he has in his sad little life.

Note that he said longer tempo runs and longer intervals but nothing whatsoever about higher mileage.

If he as doing 5 miles worth of 800m reps, he's going to do 5 miles of 1000m reps. Lagat knows that kicking up the mileage is going to deaden his speed and not give any of the speed endurance he needs. After all, he's training for a 5k, not an ultra

Seb Coe for years was thought to be a low mileage guy. Then we found out that Seb only counted his main run for the day, not the one or two extra runs he would do to get his legs stretched back out.

Now sure Seb was a middle distance guy but the same effect is applicable to longer distances. Lydiard only let his guys count their main run for the day in those famous 100 mile weeks. A lot of times they would do an extra run or two.

So basically high mileage is okay when done right. But if you're running 100 mile weeks and counting the three runs you do every day as part of your mileage you're lying to yourself. The work that makes you successful at the top levels of distance running are going to be your workouts. Look at Zatopek, Viren, Geb, Terget, and Bekele. They probably do higher mileage than they reported but the majority of it was long tempo, Vo2 max runs, long track workouts with short intervels, and fartleks. Running a bunch of miles at 6:00 minute pace sounds great when you're 5k pr is 16:45 but when you can run 5k in under 13:00 minutes the majority of your runs should be faster and should benefit you more.

High mileage is the solution for people who have been under trained their whole lives. None of our top level mid-distance and distance runners can claim to be under trained.

I agree. 5k and 10k runners don't need the 100+ mile a week, like the marathoners.

Bernard knows what he is missing and I think he is right on about needing more tempos and VO2 max on the track. But, he also needs to maintain the speed workouts.

Moe racing style shows that he is upping the pace from 1000 to 600M from the finish. He right on course and just needs the final finishing touches to maximize his fitness before Daegu.

I heard former South African Sidney Maree in 93,'who became an American Athlete, before I went overseas to coach for the USA in an Internat'l Meet speak to our team and he stated that the US Athlete's have a poor attitude and complain about anything as opposed to the Africans who say and take the attitude is wonderfull. I took that positive attitude in my coaching for that meet and it generated great results. We had a Legendary HS FB Coach here in the inner city who had his team recite positive affirmations for a game and were super successfull against the Suburban teams. For example, "The field is a quagmire,but what is it for the Bulldogs?"... "Grass"!

Lagat has that positive attitude!!!

Three Rivers wrote:

I heard former South African Sidney Maree in 93,'who became an American Athlete, before I went overseas to coach for the USA in an Internat'l Meet speak to our team and he stated that the US Athlete's have a poor attitude and complain about anything as opposed to the Africans who say and take the attitude is wonderfull. I took that positive attitude in my coaching for that meet and it generated great results. We had a Legendary HS FB Coach here in the inner city who had his team recite positive affirmations for a game and were super successfull against the Suburban teams. For example, "The field is a quagmire,but what is it for the Bulldogs?"... "Grass"!

Lagat has that positive attitude!!!

Awesome - all we need to do is have a positive attitude and the US will start winning medals everywhere!

Its very sad that as for distance running only three or four countries in the world have a positive attitude.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

long dong silver wrote:

Clearly, Lagat doesn't believe that high mileage is the most efficient way to get strength for a 5000m runner.

Yeah, the he's clearly doing everything wrong. He's probably staring at his gold medals right now in tears searching for someone like you to give him such great and insightlful advice!

When did I say he was doing anything wrong? It was a neutral observation. You should learn to read.

coach d wrote:

Rashid Ramzi 2012 wrote:

Lagat sets an AR and says he'll work even harder. Rupp and Sol fall in the bushes and cry like pusses. See the difference?

Exactly what I'm saying and have been saying for some time. Lagat says basically that the other guy is better than me and I have to work harder. That's really the American way--see the Celtics and the Lakers, the Patriots and other real professionals. I'll bet the US Womens Soccer team is saying the same thing to themselves for London. That's what winners do.

The Oregon folks seem to be saying, oh gee that meanie pushed me off the track, and.... That's what whiners do, and why runners from Oregon never win anything internationally.

seriously?, are you freaking kidding me? The celtics, Lakers, and Patriots are your examples for "hard-working" american professionals, while Rupp and Solinsky are not? That statement didn't even matter here, you were just taking the opportunity to subject us to your moronic viewpoints. Some people have no concept of what "working hard" is.

130-160 MPW are what people do if they LOVE running, people that LOVE running win shit. I don't think Solinksy or Rupp LOVE running, I think they see it as a job, they will never be successful if it's just a paycheck to them. Everytime I see them before a race they don't look happy about it, they look scared.

Do you believe the Kenyans LOVE running? or do you think many of them find it as a very successful way out of the poverty that strickens their country?

Just bc someone does not run 130+mpw it doesn't mean a lesser love of the sport.

They (Rupp & Sol) are training the way they, along with their coaches, feel is best for them. And as far as results go, they are pretty damn good. Maybe we aren't winning medals yet but we are a hell of a lot closer then we have ever been.

And to Coach D, AlSal never said Mo was doing 2/3 of the TOTAL volume that Rupp does. He said his workouts were 2/3 of the volume. I'd assume that most aerobic conditioning days are the same and the actual workouts is where the differences come into play. And this is not to say that he will never get there. AlSal has been working with Rupp for a while and has a pretty good understanding of how close Rupp is to that ever important line. Working with Mo for the first time, I'm sure they are using this year as a learning year and keeping the brakes on just a little to avoid potential setbacks.

Additionally, i do agree that Longer Threshold work (Progressions and Steady States) is probably the best tool to get stronger but only once a strong foundation is set.

And the whole debate of what is better (mileage or workouts) is pointless. Physiologically people are different, sure. But the main thing that has to be taken into account is the mental side of training. The real art is keeping an athlete excited about making sacrifaces in their lives, getting enough sleep, doing the proper training, believing, and anything else that needs to be done. If you can achieve this over a long enough period with proper manipulation of stimulus then you will be successful. As long as the athletic development fundametals and princpals are respected, the details of how you get there will be ever changing.

Wow, you seem to know a lot about them! You must know them pretty well, right? Or you must at least have seen them in real life? Or are you just making this shit up?

Seriously, you must LOVE running? When will people understand that the shit you read on high school running t-shirts isn't how real life works?

Shoe Fetish wrote:

And the whole debate of what is better (mileage or workouts) is pointless. Physiologically people are different, sure. But the main thing that has to be taken into account is the mental side of training. The real art is keeping an athlete excited about making sacrifaces in their lives, getting enough sleep, doing the proper training, believing, and anything else that needs to be done. If you can achieve this over a long enough period with proper manipulation of stimulus then you will be successful. As long as the athletic development fundametals and princpals are respected, the details of how you get there will be ever changing.

BOOM. very well said. this post should be copied and pasted into every thread on letsrun.