If You Were Coaching Andrew Wheating, What Would You Have Advised Him To Do in Men's 1500?

I sincerely believe that Centrowitz was probably going to be the victor regardless of pace or tactic. His fitness level right now is unreal. I know Andrew well and he is a ferocious competitor and an ever better person but sometimes I fear that he will keep relying on the sit-and-kick while everyone else is already wise to the plan.

Come on guys, you think Wheating should have led? That's just silly. Everyone in the race was exactly who they are. How did Centro Sr predict that the race would go out in 2:10? Because every single dude was consistent as he'll.

Centro and Lagat, perfect positioning in the front, ready to move at the right time

Leo, fighting for position, a little bit all over the place, kicking like a maniac

Wheating, scared, not in good position, didn't win when the odds weren't overwhelmingly in his favor

lomong, knocking people around, mid pack

Etc

Etc

Etc

Not a single one of them was going to lead before the last 300. It was never gonna happen. If I had to put money on someone making a mid race push it would have been Jordan Mac (and he had to, but it did nothing for him). If whetting led the whole way he would have been worse than 4th. He's NEVER led a race.

Also, everyone is seriously underestimating how good Centro Jr is. you won't be in two weeks when he runs well below the A standard though (and beats wheating if he's in the race).

You guys are dummies.

Leave you best race on the track. I was there, and it was pathetic. At 800 meters the women had run 3 seconds faster. People don't pay top dollar to see this type of "running." Run like the winner of the women's 800 did. If you get beaten, you still have the satifaction that you ran your best. The way Wheating ran the race he made it an 80 meter sprint, and he was fourth fastest.

T&F Nut wrote:

Leave you best race on the track. I was there, and it was pathetic. At 800 meters the women had run 3 seconds faster. People don't pay top dollar to see this type of "running." Run like the winner of the women's 800 did. If you get beaten, you still have the satifaction that you ran your best. The way Wheating ran the race he made it an 80 meter sprint, and he was fourth fastest.

That seems a bit harsh. It's a championship race- what do you expect? That's what makes the 1500m fun to watch- if the favorites want to play the waiting game, then they are game to be upset.

As for Wheating, I'd second whomever said sit on Lagat the whole way. BL is always in the right position, and it wasn't like they ran away from Wheating. I suppose the problem (or at least his reluctance) in pushing his way onto BL's shoulder is that Wheating is obviously a big dude w/ a long stride- not ideal for running inside in a slow, physical 1500m. But he had better get used to it, because that's what the early rounds of any championship heats are going to be like. Ultimately, it sounds like Wheating just isn't that sharp right now- give him a few more races to bust the rust, and his finishing speed should be back.

Here's the one thing I don't get, and it directly pertains to Wejo's question about the coaching advice: it seems as though Wheating did not realize that Lagat was not planning to double at Worlds. Thus, were I wheating's coach, I would have been damn sure to hammer it into the kid's head that even if he doesn't finish top 3, 4th should still be good enough. Granted, you present it as a worst case scenario when the guy was going into the race thinking he might win, but still- no excuse why wheating reacted the way he did when it was pretty much a lock he'd make the team in 4th. Shows me a lack of race awareness.

Should be fun to watch the Americans at Worlds. Centro and Wheating have nothing to lose at the WCs, and that can be a very liberating thing. I think they both run 3:32 or faster in Europe this season.

algorewasright wrote:

I would have advised Wheating to glue himself to the right shoulder of Bernard Lagat, and follow BL's every move. In addition to being fast, BL also is a pretty savvy racer.

That is my feeling as well. And if Teg had done this in 2007, he would likely have a bronze in the 5000 instead of missing it by one step.

Agree with this. Why do the talented runners act like taking the lead is the end in these races? Run an even paced race and finish at your time instead of letting others dictate your pace.

With all due respect, you expect a race, not a trot and then a 80 yard dash. This "race" was NOT fun to watch. Myself, and the spectators all around me were disgusted. Many were glad Wheating didn't make the World Team (or so they thought) because of the way he ran or didn't run. And remember, he's an Oregon alumnus.

Don't get hurt for 3 months in the winter. It has nothing to do with his tactics--it's such an easy thing to blame. Classic HS coach mentality. He will be in great shape come Worlds, but he isn't there yet.

I would just tell him to stay out of lane 3! Centro had the right strategy, get up front even if you don't lead. Less chance of getting clipped when you only have two or three guys ahead of you, and you're right there when the pace picks up. Mid-pack was a mess.

Of course, I never would have expected the pace to go out that slow, or for Centro to win it, so....

What baffles me is this was the final. He wasn't doubling. There was nothing to "save" for or a reason to conserve energy. He had 2 months to recover from a 4 lap race. He should have just put the pedal to the metal and outran the other guys. Is there any reason you should have 5 guys trying to kick you down in a US championship when your PR is 3:31?

The dude just blew it and he deserves to stay off the world team. I hope he remembers this lesson for 2012 and stops running like a scared chump.

in regards to the 4th should be good enough, I wouldve done the opposite and not told him that. people tend to relax a little too much when they are given info like that, in this kind of scenario, not telling him and pressuring him a little to get top 3 would be what I wouldve done. if he had known the whole 4th place thing he mightve eased up too much and lost that .01 seconds to leer.

and wheating always goes into a race not knowing about his competition (or at leats puts off finding out about it as long as he can). thats how he works, it keeps him relaxed and thats he how preps for races. everyone is different in there pre race prep, some like to know everything about the competition, others like to go in there completely oblivious. you also need to remember that wheating isnt a track junkie like you or myself are, and he's still learning about this sport and all the rules. I admit too, I didnt even know the race schedule for daegu (altho I did know for a fact that lagat wasnt doing the 1500m at worlds and I knew the standards rule as well as the declaration to run the event rule.)

i know people who have gone into races thinking that top 6 qualify for the state meet or something like that and they try to hang on to one of those top 6 positions, and end up getting something like 4th. when in reality it mightve been top 3 that advance and not top 6, so that one kid whos been trying to qualify for a while and had familiarized themself with the top 6 rule used from previous years finds out that they got the worst spot possible and end up not going to states. its better to have a clear idea of what you need to do, and even have a little bit of pressure, in my experience and opinion

I agree. Same thing goes for that Russel Brown idiot.He arguably f***ed up worse than Wheating.

asdfasdfasd wrote:

The dude just blew it and he deserves to stay off the world team.

He needed to get out a little better and sit closer the the front but on the rail. He just needed to go a bit earlier and be on Lagat's shoulder down the back stretch instead of maintaining his distance and letting himself get outkicked. After watching the video again though, he wasn't too tactically unsound. He just didn't have it last 100m.

T&F Nut wrote:

Leave you best race on the track. I was there, and it was pathetic. At 800 meters the women had run 3 seconds faster. People don't pay top dollar to see this type of "running." Run like the winner of the women's 800 did. If you get beaten, you still have the satifaction that you ran your best. The way Wheating ran the race he made it an 80 meter sprint, and he was fourth fastest.

Easy thing to say but shoe companies don't give bonuses for your "best" they give them for making the team. You have to go with the tactic that gives you the best chance to do that.

If the first 200 was slower than 31 I would have told Wheating emphatically to hell with that workout effort pace, grab the damn lead and control the race. I would also prepare for this scenario beforehand as the Americans tend to turn our national meets into tactical affairs.

The other 1500-meter runners were not going to challenge Wheating if he took the lead and he was in Wheating-esque shape of 2010, they would just draft off him and try to go around him in the last 100. B. Lagat was the only guy who could really hang with AW at the highest end pace.

Matt Centrowicz is very good, maybe the future in 2-3 years, but he would not have the same furious kick in a 3:32 race. If Wheating's fitness was 'off' (someone suggested there a one month injury interruption), then the calculus changes. I would have told Wheating to stay in the top 3-4 at all costs and have him kick like the blazes with 250 to go. And it would have been Wheating, Manzano and Lagat in a legitamitely fast-paced race, with Torrance and Centrowicz battling it out for 4th.

As for sacrificing oneself by front running...tell that to Alysia Montano. She did it at 2007 NCAAs and she did it again last week.

To Wheating:

Stop being a dumbass.

1:54 pace = you and Legat making it.

2:12 Pace = everyone has a chance.

The 2 sub 3:31 should make it easy, but one was a dumbass....

If I'm Wheating I basically do a gradual surge all through the race.

The thing Wheating needs to learn to do is assess where he is at. You can fault him for having a lackluster kick. But a bigger fault was the more basic thing of not being aware that he had a lackluster kick.

On the other hand, his fitness level looked great. His run in the 1st heat was impressive where he effortlessly ran about 3:40.

Wheating is a 3:30 runner for crying out loud. That is a time even favored veterans like Lomong and Manzano only dream about. For him, taking charge of a race and running out front, in a controlled calculated way, is the way to go against the runners he was facing. I highly doubt others in the race have the finishing speed they had at 3:36 pace (giving some allowance for the wind factor).

But then even if they did, at least that is a better way to lose for Wheating. Its absolutely inexcusable for Wheating to finish 4th in a time of 3:48. Totally inexcusable.

whatever man wrote:

As for sacrificing oneself by front running...tell that to Alysia Montano. She did it at 2007 NCAAs and she did it again last week.

I think you're wrong here, the difference in fitness between Alysia and her competitors is simply larger than the difference between Wheating and his. Do you think Alysia would be slower in a rabbited race? If someone else were leading the whole way she'd be a second or two faster (I'm just guessing) and the rest of the field would be where they were, the gap would be even larger.

...Study the races of Mathew Centrowitz.

Especially the last 7.