Questions about Summer of Malmo

Thanks Malmo! Just one more question, I'm in the process of taking a month off before I start training next week. Just clarifying it is ok to start the workouts the first week back? Or to wait a while?

malmo wrote:

1) How fast can you normally run 10x400m and with what rest?

2) How fast/far are your normal tempo runs?

3) How fast could you normally do 200m repeats, lets say 10-16 of them?

4) how fast can you normally do mile repeats? How many of them? How much rest?

5) What are your best times?

I'm interested, may incorporate some training into my schedule...

1) Probably 62 w/ 90sec rest, a 3min break after 5

2) 5:20's (our normal tempo is 4.5miles)

3) 26s

4) I've never run them, but somewhere a shade under 5 for 5-6 I assume. Going off no reference here.

5) 1:54 / 3:57 on the track, / 25:50 (8k XC). Capable of faster on the track in the right race.

malmo wrote:

I see so many people do everything upside down. They start off early in the season with the idea that they should do long, slow interval sessions and by the end of the season they are doing short, fast intervals -- that is to say, short and fast that have nothing to do with their demands of their chosen races. What they really need to be doing is to start off with shorter faster intervals and lengthen them, and zone in on their actual race paces by the end of the season. In other words train at the speeds you intend to race at. Get more and more race specific as you approach your target dates.

Make sense, or no?

_______________________________

Would this be advisable too for a person coming from a layoff and rebuilding some base? As an example, a runner who wants to drastically improve on PR's of 18:24 to sub-17, and is coming back to training after a 1month layoff. Assuming the adage holds true that the peak is only as high as the base. Would this person who usually trains or builds from a base or easy day , and long run, pace of 7:45 - 8:00 mpm pace, start off at 7:00-7:15 for instance, but obviously at a lower volume and then build volume off of that pace from the beginning? Then later add in the tempo and speed work in the same manner, starting at the intended race pace and lengthening.

Jesus Christ. Why does everyone keep posting asking if this still applies to their special situation? It applies to everyone, but the secret is YOU DO IT BY FEEL. So heart attack guy, layoff guy, and whoever else - you want to race faster? Run more and run doubles. Increase by feel. Workouts within yourself. Not complicated. You are not a unique and special snowflake.

And why do new guys keep posting their own times? Just extrapolate based on the times malmo has already posted.

Why is everyone like a child in this thread?

seriously now wrote:

Jesus Christ. Why does everyone keep posting asking if this still applies to their special situation? It applies to everyone, but the secret is YOU DO IT BY FEEL. So heart attack guy, layoff guy, and whoever else - you want to race faster? Run more and run doubles. Increase by feel. Workouts within yourself. Not complicated. You are not a unique and special snowflake.

And why do new guys keep posting their own times? Just extrapolate based on the times malmo has already posted.

Why is everyone like a child in this thread?

Now I do have a serious question. I was injured for a long time and have recently ran for 3 weeks healthy. Now is it safe to just go ahead and start doing these workouts? Since I can just go off feel it is irrelevant what current race times are. Thanks.

Please read the source material before you hector malmo with your questions. All these questions have been asked and answered. You are aggrevating "seriously now"!

http://2008olympictrialsakatommyleonard.shutterfly.com/234

SOM is about laying down a base. You don't get in shape to do SOM, you do SOM to get in shape!

If you want my opinion on exact paces for you to do then answer me thes questions.

1) How fast can you normally run 10x400m and with what rest?

2) How fast/far are your normal tempo runs?

3) How fast could you normally do 200m repeats, lets say 10-16 of them?

4) how fast can you normally do mile repeats? How many of them? How much rest?

5) What are your best times?[/quote]

1) Ran 10x400 in 64 with 400m rest, about 2:10-2:30

2) Tempo runs are normally 5:20-5:40. I've run 15 miles at 5:40 pace, last 5 miles were under 5:30. And could probably run 10 miles around 5:25.

3) Never done a workout like that, but could probably run around 16x200 in 28-32s with 400m rest. Just a guess though.

4) I ran 5x1600 with 4 min. rest and averaged 4:51, with my last 1600 in sub 4:40.

5) 800-2:02, 1600-4:31, 3200-9:15, XC 5k- 15:37

Moved from another thread. I'm preparing a proper answer for all of you. Stay tuned.

1) How fast can you normally run 10x400m and with what rest?

2) How fast/far are your normal tempo runs?

3) How fast could you normally do 200m repeats, lets say 10-16 of them?

4) how fast can you normally do mile repeats? How many of them? How much rest?

5) What are your best times?

1) did 10x400 @ 71s with 1 minute rest

2) in track, haven't been doing too many tempos, on track 5:40-5:45 pace

3) 10-16 is a wide range, but with 200 jog rest after it (60-90 secs) I could do 13x200 @ 33 without too much trouble

4) with 400m rest, early in season, did 5:19 5:09 5:09 but could probably do better now

5) 800 2:07 1600 4:37 3200 9:51 (slow at short stuff) also 5k in 16:34 but I was in far worse shape then. Also, did half marathon (on my long day in training) 1:23:12.

Any input on what I can get out of this summer? I've run 9:5x 3 times in the past 2 weeks in the 3200.

ChubsyUbsy wrote:

Please read the source material before you hector malmo with your questions. All these questions have been asked and answered. You are aggrevating "seriously now"!

http://2008olympictrialsakatommyleonard.shutterfly.com/234

SOM is about laying down a base. You don't get in shape to do SOM, you do SOM to get in shape!

Instead of just answering, I'm glad you decided to be a typical poster and be a dick. Thanks. By the way, the question wasn't necessarily directed at malmo; I'm just trying to improve.

The serious part of your response was helpful though, thanks.

malmo wrote:

1) How fast can you normally run 10x400m and with what rest?

2) How fast/far are your normal tempo runs?

3) How fast could you normally do 200m repeats, lets say 10-16 of them?

4) how fast can you normally do mile repeats? How many of them? How much rest?

5) What are your best times?

1) i did 12x400 with 400 jog in the early season this sprint averaging 68. I'm in much better shape now though, I'd say i could do the same workout in 66s or so.

2) 5-6 milers mostly in the low 5:50s or high 5:40s. Progressive though, First mile with be around 6 flat, finishing with a 5:35 or so.

3) did 10x200 in 28 with a minute rest 3 days ago.

4) 5xmile averaging 5:28 a couple weeks ago. 1 minute rest. sort of a "feel good" workout.

5) 9:44 for 3200m, 4:34 for 1600.

1) 63-64 with 1 min.

2) 4 miles ~5:20 or 6 miles ~5:30

3) 29-30 seconds with a quick 200 jog

4) 5-6 at 5:10-5:15 with 1-2 min.

5) 52, 1:59, 3:59, and 32:51

Malmo, when you list the shorter repeats and also the longer repeats, should they just be alternated each week?

e.g, week 1: 16x150

week 2: 12x400

week 3: 12x200

week 4: 8x600

week 5: 10x300

week 6: 6x800

Do I understand it correctly?

1) How fast can you normally run 10x400m and with what rest?

2) How fast/far are your normal tempo runs?

3) How fast could you normally do 200m repeats, lets say 10-16 of them?

4) how fast can you normally do mile repeats? How many of them? How much rest?

5) What are your best times?

wow, first of all thanks. its awesome hearing from somebody like you.

im a girl, going into my senior year of high school.

1. about 75 with 2 minutes rest

2. 20 minutes, about 6:05 pace

3. about 37

4. 4 of them, 5:50, 2:30 R

5. 800: 2:19, 1600: 5:06 3200: 11:04

quez wrote:

Malmo, when you list the shorter repeats and also the longer repeats, should they just be alternated each week?

e.g, week 1: 16x150

week 2: 12x400

week 3: 12x200

week 4: 8x600

week 5: 10x300

week 6: 6x800

Do I understand it correctly?

Yes, you've got the idea. You can if you want, but don't feel you need to do all of them. When I suggest (16-24) x (150-300) it's a menu to select from -- your choice. When I adjusted the quanitites to 16x150, 12x200, and 10x300, I was simply reacting to what I thought that specific poster might be able to do immediately. Those were specifie to the speed training session.

When I gave the suggestion of alternating with 400-600-800 instead of 1200-2000 like is written in SOM, again it was an adjustment geared to what I thought that poster would handle better. Those paces should be slow.

I've put most of you into a spreadsheet and I am writing up some comments so that you will understand my thinking behind this whole process, so most of your questions will be addressed. Be patient.

So far I've come up with a rough rule of thumb for SOM paces:

1) Tempo runs = at or a little slower than what you are doing now for tempo runs.

2) Longer repeats = If you are now doing mile repeats at 6:00 pace, then do 800 repeats at the same pace So that's I'll have to think some more about that, but it gives you an idea on how easy the paces should be.

A guy who normally does 800 repeats at 2:20 busting his balls, now does 400 repeats at 70.

800 repeats at 2:10, now does 400 repeats at 65. But to tell you the truth the guy who does 800 repeats at 2:10, I'm fine with him running them at 65-70 SOM style.

thread responders wrote:

1) How fast can you normally run 10x400m and with what rest?

2) How fast/far are your normal tempo runs?

3) How fast could you normally do 200m repeats, lets say 10-16 of them?

4) how fast can you normally do mile repeats? How many of them? How much rest?

If you could tell me how far your typical tempo runs are and for the other questions: QTY, Time, Distance, Rest would all be helpful.

You should know up front that I'm not familiar with the paces that most of you are training at normally, so I'm trying to adjust those paces in my head from paces that I understand to SOM paces for you. The spreadhseet is helping me get a better feel.

I will be back with some general comments and some specific ones as well.

Wow. Malmo really does know what he is talking about. It took me until near the end of college to really get that most of the time a good workout is something you do under control. I went through high school thinking "speed days" were all about making it hurt and often going until I crashed. The real benefits come from consistency though. They come from workouts that are tedious because they are difficult but not flat out painful (There is a time for pain in different workouts though). Listen to Malmo. I wish I had read this stuff in high school. Though, sometimes you don't just "get it" from reading it. Sometimes you have to just learn it from doing. And right there, the consistency principle of Summer of Malmo sets you up for learning about yourself. Much praise for Malmo!

I think I have the correct understanding but I definitely appreciate your willingness to give more specific details/examples. Thanks again Malmo!

malmo wrote:

2) Longer repeats = If you are now doing mile repeats at 6:00 pace, then do 800 repeats at the same pace So that's I'll have to think some more about that, but it gives you an idea on how easy the paces should be.

A guy who normally does 800 repeats at 2:20 busting his balls, now does 400 repeats at 70.

800 repeats at 2:10, now does 400 repeats at 65. But to tell you the truth the guy who does 800 repeats at 2:10, I'm fine with him running them at 65-70 SOM style.

Malmo, this seems to be (maybe it actually isn't) a lot faster than the relaxed, in control tone you emphasized previously on the speed of these repeats. It seems as such because most other examples of yours (68-70 400's for a 14:00 5k runner) are roughly at 5k pace.

However, for your first example, lets say that was 6x800 at 2:20, with 1-3 min rest. If using the previous pacing of roughly 5k pace, the 400's at 70 would be done for a 14:30ish 5k runner. However, since the athlete was busting his balls to run 2:20's with rest, a 14:30 (essentially all his 800's together with no rest) seems very unlikely, and therefore the 400's at 70 seem faster than previous recommended paces of yours.

Therefore I am asking if that pace would be the pace for the end of summer workouts, progressed upon from slower work?

Also what would be the progression on those workout? As eventually it would seem like these "cut in half" workouts would progress to the same intense workouts, which seem difficult to do and not in the SOM spirit.

How would the progression of tempo runs go as well? Just by feel, once the body gets more fit they will naturally improve I am assuming?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, and thank you for all your insight.