Well, the milrose games were a joke anyway. When was the last time we saw top level competition a la Tyson Gay/Usain Bolt, Bekele, Blanka Vlasic etc?
And a high school mile in the most famous arena of the world as the major event of the eve? Yeah right.
It does seem like the money USATF spends on Millrose could be better spent elsewhere.
The Millrose games fell apart when they covered up the boards with mondo. I don't know if they were trying to make it faster or what but that just took something away from its uniqueness. I got to run in the high school mile back when it was just the wood track, it was the most amazing experience I had in running, well along with the Penn Relays while in college. Back then there were more top runners showing up. Goucher in prime, Maurice Green, Jon Drummond, Mark Everett,Dan O'Brian, Brandon Rock, Rich Kenah, Suzy Hamilton, Regina Jacobs, Amy Acuff, The Culpeppers plus all the foreign people. I remember showing up at the main hotel in times square the lobby was just a whos who of running, it was basically a big party with a meet in the middle that just happened to be at one of the greatest venues in the world. Lately they've just relied on Lagat in the mile and thats just not enough anymore to keep people interested.
RunnathatlikesNYRR wrote:
I think the perfect scenario is one where USATF gives up the Milrose games, NYRR takes it over, and it stays at the Garden.
what she said ^^^
To avoid comparisons to the Indianapolis Sprintway and the Fayetteville Freeway run the traditional races 500y 600y mile 1,000y 2 mile and the relay equlavents and make them a coveted iWR only set-able at Millrose MSG. NYRR can do this.
Just got a press release on this. The news is official now.
Very sad day for our sport.
The one thing our sport has that a lot of others don't have is its history.
The Millrose Games at the Armory is not the Millrose Games. It's like having the New York City Marathon in Long Island or Iowa for that matter.
I just hoped that people would have worked harder to find a solution than to toss aside so many years of tradition. First time 99% of people heard of this is yesterday and now less than 12 hours later it's official.
Having track and field in a major arena denotes to the rest of the world it is a serious sport and a spectator sport.
Feel free to email me if you know more on this.
My only hope is this is some sort of negotiating ploy to get a better rate from the Garden for the meet. I can't believe people otherwise would just cast aside so much tradition. This being NYC I'm sure there are crazy labor contracts that make putting on the meet for 1 day super expensive.
Does anyone have a list of(link to) the 11 lap and MSG Garden records? Thanks
Fred is spinning in his grave and expect this will send Howard to his.
I can't believe this actually happened. I ran track in NYC for high school, and almost every weekend we had a meet at the Armory. I really love and appreciate the Armory, and still get excited every time I get to race there. That being said, I truly believe that this decision takes away something VERY special about the Millrose Games.
During my senior year of high school, my team qualified for the Millrose Games. On the night that we qualified, all four of us ran MUCH better than we had leading up to that point, and most of us ran better than we would for the rest of the year. Coming from a high school where track was downplayed, probably even more than it was at most other schools, we fought for our chance in a big arena. On the night of Millrose, we had a less than stellar performance. Nonetheless, that was one of the most exciting nights of my life. I'll never forget walking out of the warm up area and into the middle of the stadium. The fact that it wasn't full didn't bother us at all. We ran our race, had our moment to shine, and then stood by the track to watch the Wannamaker mile. It was unbelievable. Not even the Penn Relays can compare to the feeling of running at MSG. That night at the Garden was the night that I realized how much I love the sport, and it was when I decided I wanted to do everything I could to keep running in college even though I never dreamed that I'd see the Garden from that perspective again.
Now, in college, I've had the opportunity to run at many other venues. None of the tracks that I have visited has come even close to matching the experience or excitement of running at Madison Square Garden, not even racing at the Penn Relays. Now that it's moved to the Armory, I wouldn't be surprised if it fades until it becomes viewed just another weekend meet at the Armory, where some pros, college athletes, and high school athletes just happen to be racing at the same meet.
The times will undoubtedly get faster, but that just means that there's one more chance to run a fast time in a season that's viewed as less important than cross country or outdoor track. Many athletes who run at the Millrose Games ran a qualifying time at the Armory or at another banked indoor track, so it's not like one more race there would benefit them.
I truly feel sorry for the future runners who will never be able to experience the Millrose Games at Madison Square Garden.
Here is the official release from the Armory Foundation:
Armory to host Millrose Games
Millrose Games to expand to 'all day' Saturday program
NEW YORK, May 13, 2011 - Beginning next year, the Millrose Games will move from Madison Square Garden to the New Balance Track & Field Center at the Armory in Washington Heights.
``The Millrose Games deserves the best track possible especially in this performance driven sport with the London Summer Olympics just around the corner,'' said Dr. Norbert Sander, president of the Millrose Games. ``The Armory is just that exceptional place to compete for professionals, collegiate, and high school stars in the modern track era.''
The 105th Millrose Games will take place Saturday, January 28 at its new location.
Since 1914, the Armory has been the host of innumerable track and field competitions that featured celebrated athletes Paavo Nurmi, Carl Lewis, Al Oerter, Bob Beamon, Alan Webb and most recently five-time American record holder and eight-time Wanamaker Mile winner Bernard Lagat.
During the past 18 years the Armory has undergone $50 million in renovations. The staple of its restoration is a 200-meter banked Mondo track that gives the Armory the ``world's fastest indoor surface'' and makes it a very attractive venue for the nation's best runners to train and compete during the indoor season.
Each year the Amory hosts more than 100 indoor track and field meets including the country's largest indoor collegiate meet (New Balance Collegiate Invitational) and the national high school championship (New Balance Indoor Nationals), welcoming altogether more than 125,000 individual athletes.
Lagat, an Olympic medalist and America's distance standout, said after breaking the national two-mile indoor record at the Armory that he's ``been waiting to race here since 2001. It was my dream to race here. So I achieved my dream and broke the record.''
An expanded Millrose Games format will allow fans to attend a Saturday morning/afternoon session and an evening session at the Armory.
The Saturday morning program will begin at 10 a.m. with more college, high school, open and masters events leading up to the traditional Millrose schedule from 5-9 p.m. concluding with the Wanamaker Men's Mile.
The Armory, home to the National Track & Field Hall of Fame since 2004, can accommodate more than 8,000 spectators for the daylong event. It is positioned centrally for transportation throughout the tri-state area.
Additionally, the 105th Millrose Games will be televised regionally and nationally.
``Unlike the previous tight Friday night schedule, the Saturday format allows for more athletes to experience these great games, a true New York and national tradition,'' Sander said. ``Most importantly let us not forget the tremendous contributions made to the sport by Madison Square Garden, the Howard Schmertz family who oversaw this wonderful event there for many, many years and USA Track & Field."
Significant track and field coaches and athletes alike have expressed their affection for the Armory and believe it's an ideal host for the Millrose Games, including:
Gold medal winner in 2004 Summer Olympic (4x400 relay) Sanya Richards: ``I love training at the Armory and I remember running here in high school. It's perfect. I wish I could do it again.''
Jim Mitchell, famed 30-year track and field coach of Bronxville High School: ``The possibilities for the Millrose Games are endless at the Armory. There is so much more to offer for all, the high school, college or professional athlete. I'm looking forward to my athletes running very fast times and competing with the very best athletes.''
Gold medal winner in '96 Summer Olympics (400 meter hurdles) and Armory track & field director Derrick Adkins: ``While a 200 meter banked track, like the Armory's used to be a luxury for track athletes when I ran in college and internationally, today it is a necessity especially for world-class athletes. I believe the majority of the current world-class athletes will prefer running at the Armory.''
Holder of Irish mile record, International sports agent and two-time Olympian Ray Flynn: ``I am excited that the Millrose Games will be moving to the Armory. I'm confident that its rich history and legacy will be preserved and celebrated there.''
Dr. Norb Sander will be available for media interviews today after 2:30 p.m. at the Armory, located between 168th and 169th Street on Fort Washington Ave. Please contact Nicholas & Lence Communications for further assistance.
About the Armory Foundation:
A non-profit organization based in New York City, the Armory hosts over 100 indoor track & field meets yearly with over 125,000 individual athletes. Besides its many youth sports and educational programs, the Armory directs the Hispanic Games, The New Balance Games, and the New Balance Collegiate Invitational at the Armory the largest indoor college meet nationally and home to the National Track & Field Museum. The Armory is additionally the owner of the Millrose Games. For more information please visit:
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Millrose runner you are right on in your comments.
Millrose is about stature and history. Louis Zamperini, Wilma Ruldolph, Carl Lewis, Eamonn Coghlan, Bernard Lagat all ran at Millrose in the Garden. A track meet on national tv in a huge sporting arena like the Garden is a big deal and inspires kids much more than another track meet in a local gymnasium.
I haven't given up hope that something can be done to reverse this decision. For all the criticism USATF gets on here, it is great to see them standing up and understanding the tradition and importance of Millrose. Yes attendance had been down recently and things could be done differently but that doesn't mean you raise the white flag and abandon Millrose.
It's my understanding the Millrose Foundation owned the rights to the name "The Millrose Games." For years they leased it out to various professional organizations that paid to put on the meet. Then a few years ago somewhat quietly the Armory Foundation bought the name from the Foundation (does anyone know what they paid for it?), presumably with the idea that they would preserve the meet and its tradition. Instead they are killing it.
All I could find on it was this quote from 2009 from Norbert Sander, head of the Armory Foundation, when he talked about Armory and USATF saving Millrose: "Today we’re coming together to pull together in an effort to insure the future of the Millrose Games."
Honestly, people need to get beyond the idea that this move from the Garden is any kind of a "sad day." Watching this year's Millrose at the Garden, THAT was tragic. The meet was down to almost nothing, and USATF did not care. They LIKED it. There was a reason why Mark Wetmore, who'd briefly run the Millrose Games, gave up on it and focused on the Boston meet.
The Armory people actually care about track and field and have created a conspicuous success at their building. Look, indoor track in the U.S. isn't what it used to be, since a top of athletes don't do the season at all or now have Europe as an option. But more top tier athletes will want to run at the Armory than at the Garden.
The Answer My Friend wrote:
Honestly, people need to get beyond the idea that this move from the Garden is any kind of a "sad day." Watching this year's Millrose at the Garden, THAT was tragic. The meet was down to almost nothing, and USATF did not care. They LIKED it. There was a reason why Mark Wetmore, who'd briefly run the Millrose Games, gave up on it and focused on the Boston meet.
The Armory people actually care about track and field and have created a conspicuous success at their building. Look, indoor track in the U.S. isn't what it used to be, since a top of athletes don't do the season at all or now have Europe as an option. But more top tier athletes will want to run at the Armory than at the Garden.
I agree with this post. What is sad about this situation is not that Millrose has been "downgraded" to the Armory, but that our sport is in the state that this had to be done.
THIS IS probably the best option to keep it alive. If USATF and co. aren't going to go through the trouble to promote and advance our sport, then Millrose Games are better off at the Armory. It's sad that the tradition has to evolve this way, but it's the best solution at this point in time.
I just pulled up the Armory's financials to see if I could find out what they paid for the Millrose name. I couldn't find anything from 2009 or 2008. I'm assuming they should have paid a substantial amount for it. Should that show up in the 990s non-profits file?
Financial docs for the Armory here:
2009
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2009/133/680/2009-133680286-05be98f2-9.pdf
2008
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2008/133/680/2008-133680286-04c22e29-9.pdf
Only a few things worth noting. Dr. Norb Sander the part-time CEO got paid $167k in 2008 and $180k in 2009.
Derrick Adkins the Olympian and Director of the Armory only made $70k in 2008 (less than the office manager) and in 2009 isn't listed for some reason.
The Armory actually makes a substantial amount of money from selling NYC Marathon entries. In 2009 they netted over $140k from this. In 2008 an accountant will have to help me out. It looks like the Armory generated $330k from selling ING NYC Marathon spots in 2008 but then claim to have spent that much in expenses netting $0? Can an accountant explain that one?
The Answer My Friend wrote:
Honestly, people need to get beyond the idea that this move from the Garden is any kind of a "sad day." Watching this year's Millrose at the Garden, THAT was tragic. The meet was down to almost nothing, and USATF did not care. They LIKED it. There was a reason why Mark Wetmore, who'd briefly run the Millrose Games, gave up on it and focused on the Boston meet.
The Armory people actually care about track and field and have created a conspicuous success at their building. Look, indoor track in the U.S. isn't what it used to be, since a top of athletes don't do the season at all or now have Europe as an option. But more top tier athletes will want to run at the Armory than at the Garden.
Answer My Friend,
you are entitled to your opinion, however posting multiple posts under different names in the same thread is not the purpose of these boards. I shouldn't bother responding but I will.
A few points: 1) USATF with their strong statement to the NY Times does not like the fact Millrose has been killed as we know it.
2) Mark Wetmore's Global Athletics I believe owns the Boston meet. His group does not own the Millrose Games. A very different financial incentive.
3) The Armory has shown it cares about high school track and field. I haven't seen much info to indicate that they are too concerned about pro track and field and it is not in their mission statement.
4) As for pros preferring to run in the Armory over the Garden, the Armory offers one thing, a faster track. If that's the criteria then why don't we move the Millrose Games then to Arkansas and the Tyson track?
The pros prefer to run a) where the money is.
Then all else equal I think you'd find a lot of pros who would rather compete before a big crowd in a big arena on national tv.
Losing the history of MSG certainly hurts, but the meet had become almost too painful to attend in recent years for those of us that remembered it from better days.
I'm not saying that this is a slam dunk and Millrose will have great success at the Armory, but it was obvious that it was dying a not so slow death at MSG.
Wejo:
You make some good points and I appreciate your loyalty to the Millrose Games. However, as the world has changed, so has track and field. No one trains on 11 lap to the mile tracks anymore. The pros have alternatives that pay far better and provide better situations for achieving success. The college and high school headliners that used to ALL come to the indoor meets at these basketball arenas no longer do so, opting out for larger tracks.
Someone stated elsewhere that horse racing never has made a big deal out of times and thus, is not hampered by them. Track and Field is all about world record comparison, so the sport is trapped in its own history. Slow times are not interesting to the general public because our sport emphasizes record performances instead of winning. The small track in the Garden can't overcome exciting races when slow times are the norm.
Just think, that indoor bicycle racing used to draw full houses at the old Garden and there used to be 3-4 indoor meets in the NY metropolitan area every year at the major indoor areans. All history.
At least with this new attempt to include the high school and college athlete along with the pros, the Millrose Games may contiunue, even if in name only.
Can it really fit 4,000 spectators?
Or is that like the 2.5 million vaporware figure of those who watch the marathon?
Sorry Wejo, another rabid track & field fan here agreeing that this is not all bad. The Garden has been like a morgue the past decade (even the 100th anniversary night was pretty much dead). I'm not saying it's gonna be like the Penn Relays over at the Armory, but I bet the atmosphere will be positively electric compared to Millrose games of late. Lagat's streak just ended, perfect timing.
kmaclam wrote:
Sorry Wejo, another rabid track & field fan here agreeing that this is not all bad. The Garden has been like a morgue the past decade (even the 100th anniversary night was pretty much dead). I'm not saying it's gonna be like the Penn Relays over at the Armory, but I bet the atmosphere will be positively electric compared to Millrose games of late. Lagat's streak just ended, perfect timing.
It's going to be like any other meet at the Armory. Did you see Howard Schmertz's quote in that press release?
Moving the Millrose games to the armory will be like any other meet at the armory??? I don't agree & IF this was true, how is that a bad thing? And no, I didn't see Mr. Schmertz's quote, but am curious
This is sad to hear. I remember going to Millrose Games at the Garden with my dad and uncle and having a great time. It was like a three-ring circus. In those days the Russians would come over, especially in the LJ and HJ, and John Thomas and Brumel would have some battles. We saw John Uelses go over the PV bar at 16 feet for the world record. I guess the most exciting moment was when Dr. John Reilly came from about 60m down on the anchor leg of the two-mile relay and just missed winning the race, but clocking a 1:47.8 in 1962 on the Garden's 11 lap to the mile track.