If Lance is the best on a bike , why can't US runners do the same???

I think this is the major point of why America and Europe can dominate the cycling scene and not fair as well in running. I think this brings up an interesting question:

If someone was willing to put their money into cycling in Kenya or Ethiopia would they then be able to dominate in the same way that they do in running?

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Maybe. Supposedly, caucations typicaly have a good mix of strength and endurance. Athletes of west African decent lack the endurance and where athletes of East African decent lack the strength. I know from personal experience that, though I am fairly strong for a distance runner, my quads get destroyed when cycling. I don't think Kenyans have the theighs for it.

Of course, this is all conjecture and it would take nothing more than another Tiger Woods or Jesse Owens to blow my theories away.

The Fixer wrote:

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Kenyans would not have a chance (as a group) at dominating cycling. They would be as bad as they are at XC-skiing.

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I think we could do better at bike racing than skiing for the simple reason that the only place with snow in kenya is atop the three peaks on Mt. Kenya.

mljt wrote:

Lance gives pretty good insight into himself in his first book, he's had a crazy burning passion to be the best in the world at something, got the right coach, and manager, put it together with people like his mom and wife believing in him, and just busting his ass. Also, when he got a team "behind" him, he treats them great, he gives them much more money than the typical Euro team domestiques, and a double bonus when they win the tour. And he expects nothing less than the very best from them, in return, overall he's found the winning package.

You don't have much insight into cycling then. LeMond won three Tours de France and had a much better and more varied palmares' than Armstrong. He won on a super team (La Vie Claire) and a nowhere team ("Z") with no one to support him. LeMond had nobody but himself and his Father (who was probably more hurt then help) to make his way. As hard as it was for Armstrong after cancer, it fell into place very fast for him, and he was already a wealthy man before the cancer.

LeMond was SHOT with a shotgun. That couldn't have helped him much.

I am not comparing eras, athletes, sports, or accomplishments. I am just pointing out that your post only showed that you are Master of The Obvious. Every World Class cyclist has burning passion. You imply that this (and the "winning package") is what makes him a Tour champion. It is not. He was a World Champion when he was still whoreing around Europe and pissing every Euro pro off every five minutes. He talks about that in his book too. Lance finally grew up and disciplined himself and harnessed his potential like he was unwilling to do before he was 25. The cancer helped him to do this.

You want to see passion? Think Eddy Merckx or Bernard Hinault or even Laurent Fignon (won the Tour in his first two tries). In running I like Carlos Lopes or Viren. There are many others maybe Cram, Coe, Aouita, ... many others.

I agree with your assessment of Al Sal though. There wasn't anything that was going to get in his way of a 13:05/27:15/2:07. Unfortunately, Nature didn't have that planned for him.

Kenyans and Ethopians haven't figured out how to ride a bike yet thats why Lance is the best

More Kenyans and Ethopians ride bikes than run. Go to Africa you will see (Actually I am assuming that EThiopia and Kenya are like Uganda and Rwanda where Ihave been). Bikes everywhere. However they are not racing bicycles or even bicycles with brakes. There is an Ethiopian Professional cyclists currenty racing in Europe. First AFrican ever. AT least he was at the beginning of the season, haven\'t heard much since then. There is a \"tour of Burkina Faso\" where african teams compete alongside european professionals.

joe1836 wrote:

Kenyans and Ethopians haven\'t figured out how to ride a bike yet thats why Lance is the best

John Kelai of Kenya was pretty close to being a world-class duathlete and was trying to improve his swimming with tri-coach Bob Bowness in Singapore. But he won the Singapore Marathon and so may concentrate on running.

Evidence of his duathlon exploits is here:

http://www.duathlon.com/articles/3100

This is only the beginning!

"And to the guy that said that Lance mastered "the machine" ... that is ludicrous. I have a bike better than Armstrong's and It really does nothing for me except that it allows me to do my best."

You misunderstood me. What I meant is that cycling is a very technical sport. You can take the most highly-trained athlete and put him on the best bicycle in the world. But if he doesn't have the technical skills to handle that bike (i.e. climbing, cornering, etc.) he won't amount to much.

would it be because america are the fattest country? and alot of cycling can be done by sitting down, also apart from falls people never get injured on bikes? bikes are also very safe and easy to ride stationary, yet treadmills suck.

NCRUNNER wrote:

I think this is an interesting topic, and I would like to hear some ideas. I feel we do have the talent, but what is missing? Answers??

When was the last time some hair brained dildo said people shouldn't be allowed in RAGBRIA because they're not fast enough?

When did you see a 200+ message thread on a message forum complaining about a Bicycling article about biking just for fun?

Maybe there's fewer assholes in biking, so they don't chase their talent to the soccer fields.

Well, there are PLENTY of assholes in cycling, and PLENTY of 200+ post threads about Bicycling magazine sucking. Look at Bicycling.com's own message boards! It's a Rodale thing...they stink.

As for the guy who said that a lot of cycling can be done sitting down and no one falls on a bike, that is just ridiculous. Sure, cycling is seated, but have you ever felt the glutes on a well-trained cyclist? Cyclists have butts because that is one of the main muscles that moves you on a bike. And no one ever falls? Go to a criterium race in your town...it's an all-out fight for the front, elbows flying and lots of crashes. You obviously don't know much about the sport.

does the fact that there are large pro teams in cycling mean that there are more proffesional cyclist, while this isnt an advantage for elites it would help up and coming cyclist who if benifit from having a dedicated team around them.

Doug C,

I can take that to the bank!

Lance wouldn't be as dominant a runner because he doesn't have the body type. He is 6'2" ~165 lbs and 3% body fat. He isn't going to make it as a distance runner. A bike is a lot more forgiving of body-type, though, so he can still duke it out with smaller people because he has the aerbic engine to power the bike, and he isn't so limited by biomechanics like runners are.

American runners CAN be as good as Lance in on the bike.

As soon as more people train the right way, they will run the right way.

I think we are going to see some very exciteing things from WEB as he stayed out of college meat grinder, and has a great deal more stammina then when he ran is 3:53. I think he will can be an olimpic champ and he i s the one to watch.

Lance should consider himself lucky that the Kenyans never get on a bike.

American cyclist are able to succed internationally mainly because of a succesful club system. There may not be a ton of dedicated junior cycling teams, but these teams will have good coaching and training environments that will produce long term results. THis is the exact opposite highschool running, where 90% of coaches are completely unqualified to coach. The US has the greatest number of junior distance runners in the world(~300,000 involved in highschool running). The main reason that so many of them dont succed is because 90% of coaches are absolute crap and dont know how to train athletes. Swimming succeeds internationally as well because of its many succesful club systems.

bottom line: Majority of Highschool coaches are not trained enought to produce athletes of international caliber.

(FYI. Santiago Botero is a former world TT champion and he is columbian. Cycling is not a completely european dominated sport as some would like to believe)

I think you're being a bit harsh on American HS running coaches, not that there aren't plenty who are lousy. But surely a dedicated athlete can find his way through that, if in fact he's dedicated. I had a solid coach, but did not learn the lessons about pain and mental toughness when I was well enough conditioned for it to matter. (If I was to say my coach failed, it was in that area, NOT in training, but I can't say he was lousy, he put out some very fine runners.) Look at most of the top level guys on a local, regional, or national basis, they all trade info, talk with each other, etc. It raises the level of awareness of all things running. I think that's why Hanson's succeeds as they do, keeping the athletes in proximity and all supporting one another yields results.

And the guy who said Lance is legally on EPO - NO! He took it when he was being treated, he'd be DQ'ed if he were still on it.

Hey man, Jamaica had a bobsled team.

This year, T-Mobile (Ullrich's team) and USPS (Armstrong's team) will be one of just a handful of teams who are forced to ride production frames because their suppliers (Giant and Trek respectively) can't make the carbon frames to measure as they are built in an expensive mold and not welded.

Hahaha, I just don't understand this one, Trek is spending well over $100K on Lance's new Time Trial Bike. Or how about the Madonne? I'm sure there was a lot of R&D with that one. Here is a quote from you "At one point during the Solvang test ride Lance yelled over to the car filled with F-One faces pressed up against the glass, ?what is this thing worth?!? We all simultaneously added numbers in our heads and agreed development into Rev2 was into the hundreds of thousands." Here is the link to the site as well

http://www.trekbikes.com/diaries/scott_archive.jsp?articleId=6684&category=scottsdiary

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Those bikes that Trek sells are not designed specifically for the general public, they are designed with Lance in mind. Seriously, Trek, and Giant are one of the largest bike manufacturers in the world, you think they can't afford to design custom bikes for their sponsored atheletes? And as for 17lb bikes, is that counting 2 or 3 full water bottles??? Those bikes are state of the art even if they are production models. Lance was riding the new Dura Ace 10 speed well before anyone else. No doubt you may have a bike that may appear to be worth more, but ask yourself who those parts were designed for specifically? Then you'll have your answer.