Cow's Milk: the great debate. Is it really bad?

Of Greek decent...cannot drink milk, still have it in my cereal.

We stop drinking our own mother's milk as babies. What kind of twisted logic justifies switching species and drinking the mother's milk of cows, which is designed for their calves. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid humans.

bootsie wrote:

We stop drinking our own mother's milk as babies. What kind of twisted logic justifies switching species and drinking the mother's milk of cows, which is designed for their calves. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid humans.

'designed' ?

bootsie wrote:

We stop drinking our own mother's milk as babies. What kind of twisted logic justifies switching species and drinking the mother's milk of cows, which is designed for their calves. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid humans.

I agree. The only sane logic here. Some people take an "anything goes" approach until proven otherwise, but really, you have to use at least a little common sense and not always rely on doctors and studies to tell you what to do.

Because it is a good source of vitamins and calories. Smart humans that we can actually "create" cows through breeding efforts that can be domestic and produce enough milk for our consumption. If any other animal was smart enough to do this, they would.

bootsie wrote:

We stop drinking our own mother's milk as babies. What kind of twisted logic justifies switching species and drinking the mother's milk of cows, which is designed for their calves. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid humans.

Top of the food chain.

Humans do things differently.

We have become stronger, healthier and live longer over the years.

So I'll keep drinking milk and giving it to my kids since I feel fine.

Does eating leaves and grass seem natural to you? The only things that seem truly natural to me (based on my teeth, jaw bone and taste buds) are fruits, nuts and meat. That's only about 20% of my diet though.

The Truth Seeker wrote:

Because it is a good source of vitamins and calories. Smart humans that we can actually "create" cows through breeding efforts that can be domestic and produce enough milk for our consumption. If any other animal was smart enough to do this, they would.

bootsie wrote:

We stop drinking our own mother's milk as babies. What kind of twisted logic justifies switching species and drinking the mother's milk of cows, which is designed for their calves. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid humans.

Nice logic. If pissed off chimpanzees were smart enough to build and use nuclear weapons, they probably would too.

Humans like you spend way too much time congratulating themselves for being smarter than they actually are.

bootsie wrote:

What kind of twisted logic justifies switching species and drinking the mother's milk of cows...

Yes, the horror of it all. But let's not stop at cows' milk. What kind of twisted logic justifies humans consuming; oysters, kiwi fruit, fish eggs, snails, fermented beverages, foie gras, etc., etc. Stupid, silly, dumb, dumb humans.

RukiddingMe!! wrote:

What had occurred was that for 30 days I only ate pure non-toxic, undiseased meat. Eating this highly toxic meat caused me to get sick, because I had eaten only clean meat for so long my body had immediately rejected the toxins. This is why people in Mexico, for example, can drink the diseased toxic water and show no signs of illness. But if an American were to drink the same water, they would get violently ill. Your body does create a tolerance to poisons. The bottom line is, chicken, duck, lamb, beef, and goat are all fine as long as it is organic and kosher. It is hard to find organic kosher products in stores.

Wow, you are so full of shit.

Jefe in the CO wrote:

fermented beverages

Hey, let's not get carried away here...

There have been at least three independent mutations that permit adult humans to digest lactose (milk sugar): in Northern Europe, East Africa, and South Asia.

What this means is that some humans are "designed" (i.e. have *evolved*) to safely consume milk as adults. Wny is this a useful adaptation? Because cow's (and goat's, etc.) milk is a superb source of protein and calories, and the herding of cows (goats, etc.) permits a continuing access to protein/calories, without having to kill animals.

Government propaganda.

How can anyone say drinking milk is unnatural when we have a gene that specifically allows us to do it?

Agreed that if you are lactose intolerant you should probably avoid milk, but otherwise you're fine. I've actually read that the saturated fats in milk are good for you, but I don't know how true that is.

PASTEURIZATION HARMFUL: Many of these anti-microbial and immune-enhancing components are greatly reduced in effectiveness by pasteurization, and completely destroyed by ultra-pasteurization (Scientific American, December 1995; British J of Nutrition, 2000:84(Suppl. 1):S3-S10, S75-S80, S81-S89).

DANGERS EXAGGERATED: Although raw milk, like any food, can become contaminated and cause illness, the dangers of raw milk are greatly exaggerated. In an analysis of reports on 70 outbreaks attributed to raw milk, we found many examples of reporting bias, errors and poor analysis resulting in most outbreaks having either no valid positive milk sample or no valid statistical association (ResponsetoMarlerListofStudies.pdf).

USDA/FDA STATISTICS: Based on data in a 2003 USDA/FDA report: Compared to raw milk there are 515 times more illnesses from L-mono due to deli meats and 29 times more illness from L-mono due to pasteurized milk. On a PER-SERVING BASIS, deli meats were TEN times more likely than raw milk to cause illness (Intrepretive Summary – Listeria Monocytogenes Risk Assessment, Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, Sept. 2003, page 17).

OUTBREAKS DUE TO PASTEURIZED MILK: Due to high-volume distribution and its comparative lack of anti-microbial components, pasteurized milk when contaminated has caused numerous widespread and serious outbreaks of illness, including a 1984-5 outbreak afflicting almost 200,000 people. In 2007, three people died in Massachusetts from illness caused by contaminated pasteurized milk (Real Milk PowerPoint, slide 30).

FORTY-YEAR-OLD SCIENCE AND ANCIENT HISTORY: Claims that raw milk is unsafe are based on 40-year-old science and century-old experiences from distillery dairy “factory farms” in rapidly urbanizing nineteenth century America.

MODERN ADVANTAGES: Compared to 30-50 years ago, dairy farmers today can take advantage of many advancements that contribute to a dramatically safer product including pasture grazing, herd testing, effective cleaning systems, refrigeration and easier, significantly less expensive, more accessible and more sophisticated milk and herd disease testing techniques.

UNIQUE FOOD: Raw milk is the ONLY food that has extensive built-in safety mechanisms and numerous components to create a healthy immune system.

More information, go to this link:

http://www.realmilk.com/rawmilkoverview.html

Milk is fine, don't fall for vegan mumbo-jumbo. Look at the cultures that have consumed dairy for millenia. They are generally large, healthy, and powerfully built.

Great, raw milk is safer than deli meat. There's a great standard to be judging our food by.

Raw milk is great, but don't drink it unless you really trust the person you're buying it from. If it were consumed and distributed on the national scale pasteurized milk is, it would be a public health nightmare.

kdty wrote:

There have been at least three independent mutations that permit adult humans to digest lactose (milk sugar): in Northern Europe, East Africa, and South Asia.

What this means is that some humans are "designed" (i.e. have *evolved*) to safely consume milk as adults. Why is this a useful adaptation? Because cow's (and goat's, etc.) milk is a superb source of protein and calories, and the herding of cows (goats, etc.) permits a continuing access to protein/calories, without having to kill animals.

All of which is preamble to an attempt to answer the OP's question: milk is "good" for some people and "bad" for others. (For me, milk is "good," because I can digest it--and because it can help raise my naturally-low cholesterol to more healthful levels. For you, who knows?) Different things work for different people.

Oh, and to the person who observed that American milk is "full of chemicals": right you are!

Of course, the same can be said of every piece of matter in the universe, so that was not an enormously informative comment...

another one wrote:

Great, raw milk is safer than deli meat. There's a great standard to be judging our food by.

Raw milk is great, but don't drink it unless you really trust the person you're buying it from. If it were consumed and distributed on the national scale pasteurized milk is, it would be a public health nightmare.

EXACTLY. This is why they are trying to go back to raw milk because it is from local farms, not corporate farms that receive funding from government to monopolize the market. Local farmers take more pride in taking care of their own business, including the health and well-being of animals than their counter-parts who have been busted countless times due to health violations because they're focused on the almighty dollar.

Information from

Economic Potential of Raw Milk:

CONVENTIONAL SITUATION: Thirty cows in a confinement situation; high-protein feed to increase milk production; cows produce 190 hundredweight of milk each year; farmer sells milk to co-op and receives about $12 per hundredweight:

* Income is about $1.50 per gallon or $68,400 per year

* Farmer receives no subsidies (only corporate farms get these)

* Farmer has high cost of feed, vet bills, replacement cows, artificial breeding, interest on equipment loans.

In 2002, dairy farms in the U.S. went out of business at the rate of 16 per day.

DIRECT SALES OF RAW MILK FROM PASTURE-FED COWS: Thirty cows on 100 acres; cows are fed grass, hay and silage from the farm; cows produce 100 hundredweight each per year.

* Income on raw milk or raw dairy products is $4 - $8 per gallon, or $150,000 - $300,000 per year.

* If the farmer is making cheese, cream or butter, he has whey and skim milk, free food for pigs

* Additional farm income from pork, beef, eggs, chicken, produce, etc., possible in a diversified farm based on dairy, could be $50,000 - $100,000 per year.

* Total gross income to farmer $200,000 - $400,000 per year

* Costs for feed, vet bills, interest are much lower; no replacement cow costs.

RURAL REVIVAL: Every $1 earned on the farm = $5-7 for the local community; if 10 percent of the population would buy raw milk and other products directly from the farm, we would need 75,000 farms, all making at least $200,000 per year. Raw milk sales hold the potential for a huge rural revival.

CURRENT SITUATION FOR RAW MILK SALES

* Retail sales are legal in 10 states

* On-farm sales are legal in 15 states

* Herd shares are legal in 4 states

* There is no law on herd shares in 6 states

* Pet food sales are legal in 4 states, implying that human consumption is feasible

* Raw milk sales are illegal in 11 states and the District of Columbia