Considering he missed most of January for training, not bad at all, and consistent with his progress last summer/fall. No reason he can't be running 3:32-3 by summer, and possibly better, if he can stay healthy (big "IF").
Considering he missed most of January for training, not bad at all, and consistent with his progress last summer/fall. No reason he can't be running 3:32-3 by summer, and possibly better, if he can stay healthy (big "IF").
The issue here with most of the posters stating their opinions on Webb's performance is that they are comparing the correlation between this race and his pr, versus their own races in March in relation to their own pr's.
When you have run 430 for the mile (my guess for most letsrunners prs), you expect to go out first or second race of the season and pr. But when you are a 346 miler like Webb, that's not how things work--that fitness is so far off from their general fitness. It is much harder to not only drop time from pr's when you are a world class runner, but to get within a few seconds of that peak fitness.
This is a great race for Webb. You've got to praise Salazar for making him race so much, despite his recent troubles doing so. I am sure Webb was thinking, "I'm not in shape, I just need to go train and get fit." But sometimes the easiest way to race a fast time, is to keep on racing. The more races Webb runs, the less he will put each race on a pedastol and claim it as the "end all, be all." When you race so few times, each one is mounted with loads of pressure; early season racing isn't all because of physiological reasons, it is important for the mentality of the racers. The more often a runner is in a race type situation, the better they will be able to handle the burden of pressure.
I'd also say that Webb's pacing of the 1000 meters in the charity meet also looked very sharp - he was really flying and seemed to be runnign with some joy. he seemd to turn it on the last 100 meters. You can see it on flotrack.
That said, Webb is no better than fifth or sixth best US miler right now - guy will have to have a perfect race to make the WC team.
Where's lomong anyway?
Spider legs wrote:
According to this, it is Webb's fastest ever season opener:
http://www.athleticsweekly.com/news/rudisha-opens-season-with-800m-world-lead-in-melbourne/
If this is true - and I believe it is - then all the talk of this race being way off his PR is pointless. Webb didn't open his season this fast the year he ran 1:43/3:30. He's fine.
Finishing between the Olympic Gold and Silver medalist after his January is actually really good. Its a very positive sign for him.
I would love to have seen the board had he run a 3:33 or something like that. "Oh, he's not timing his season right, AlSal is ruining him!" You are all morons.
Also, stop comparing him to his high school times. Alan Webb was an elite athlete in high school, he competed with and actually beat some of the best pros in the world at the Pre Classic. He's not like you dipshits who sucked balls and can now do repeats at your pathetic high school times. Stop thinking he would have anything close to that kind of improvement curve because it's stupid as hell.
Kenny F. Powers wrote:
I would love to have seen the board had he run a 3:33 or something like that. "Oh, he's not timing his season right, AlSal is ruining him!" You are all morons.
Also, stop comparing him to his high school times. Alan Webb was an elite athlete in high school, he competed with and actually beat some of the best pros in the world at the Pre Classic. He's not like you dipshits who sucked balls and can now do repeats at your pathetic high school times. Stop thinking he would have anything close to that kind of improvement curve because it's stupid as hell.
+1
A solid effort by A. Webb! I think he may run a couple 5000's this year and could run a 13:05/13:10. But we need him at 1500.
In July 1984 Steve Cram, who had been injured when he tripped on the notorious Coke can and was notably lacking in training, ran a 1500 TT at windy Gateshead in which he - just - squeaked inside 3:40. I think it was a 3:39.8. Maybe that was on Jimmy Hedley's watch and it might have been outside 3:40. This happened only four weeks before the Olympics. I saw this and thought, like many, how the **** does he expect even to make the final. He didn't exactly look pleased with this result, but Jimmy Hedley wasn't panicking. For good reason.
Four weeks later:
Final
RANK FINAL TIME
1. Sebastian Coe (GBR) 3:32.53 OR
2. Steve Cram (GBR) 3:33.40
3. José Manuel Abascal (ESP) 3:34.30
4. Joseph Chesire (KEN) 3:34.52
5. Jim Spivey (USA) 3:36.07
6. Peter Wirz (SUI) 3:36.97
7. Andrés Vera (ESP) 3:37.02
8. Omar Khalifa (SUD) 3:37.11
9. Tony Rogers (NZL) 3:38.98
10. Steve Scott (USA) 3:39.86
11. Riccardo Materazzi (ITA) 3:40.74
— Steve Ovett (GBR) DNF
Cram even assaulted the WR the week after the OG in that ridiculous race in Budapest (paced by Sydney Maree through 800 in 1:50.3) and improved his SB to 3:33.14.
Alan Webb appears to be like Steve Cram in that he seems able to recover his high-end speed-endurance very quickly. If Cram could improve from 3:40 to 3:33 and an Olympic silver in four weeks, then it's certainly within the bounds of belief for Webb could improve from 3:37 in March to 3:29 in August.
Maintaining mental disciple in the face of setbacks is one key aspect that differentiates the true champions (Coe, Cram) from the also-rans who had similar talent (Scott, Wessinghage etc). Webb's mental fortitude is encouraging.
You'll all be saying something quite different when he springs a 1:44.5 in July prior to Daegu.
Webb should consult with Rick Wohlhuter - whose mantra, DO NOT PANIC! FOLLOW YOUR PLAN! is an excellent one.
I know he had been sick going into Boston last month so hopefully he stays healthy and can establish some momentum.
you heard it here first. he\'s setting himself up for a 5k.
I don't think that it's fair to say that Steve Scott lacked mental fortitude or discipline in the face of setbacks. He ran consistently very, very well through long seasons and trained exceptionally hard. He had a bad Olympic final for whatever reason, but he also won some big races and medaled at world's in 1983, I believe.
This is an excellent race for Webb, because rather than spiraling into worse and worse performances following an initial disappointment indoors, he turned himself around completely. He ran 4 flat less than a month ago, improved a bit to 7:51, while still being beaten by collegians, then ran a poor 1:52 before pacing the mile, and now he runs 3:37, which is about a 3:54 equivalent and is right between Kiprop and Willis. This is a runner who was out with injuries for a long time, who came back only to 3:36 at the end of last season, and who struggled with illness and lack of confidence indoors. In 2007, he ran 3:51 mile in April and he's now not that far off of that. In his senior year of high school, he ran 3:59 indoors and 3:53 about three months later. So, I think that it's fair to say that webb's very much on track now to get back to his 2007 level, and I didn't think that I would be able to say that this year after his indoor campaign.
I'm going to be the first to tip the old cap to Salazar, for keeping a steady hand and keeping Webbster engaged throughout the rough start of this year. That is one of the most important roles of the coach: to keep the ship on course through rough waters until the sailing can become smooth again.
YES!!! this is scientifically accurate!!! WEBB IS STEVE CRAM!!!
He be stridin and a ridin his way to an Olympic gold medalllllll ya'll
Webb's 2011 champaign for the gold has B.E.G.U.N. !!!!
YES YES YES
HE HE HE
CAN CAN CAN
We've marked your words, so we'll remember whom to mock as AW lines up for the world championship final--in the 1500m. Go Webb!!!
obiwan6262 wrote:
you heard it here first. he's setting himself up for a 5k.
Steve Scott and Alan Webb share an unfortunate trait among US MD runners which is a lack of self-confidence. It manifests in different ways.
Scott's achievements were moderate. He won a silver at the Worlds in 83, yes, and his 5th in the 88 final was good. He even beat Aouita in a sub-7:40 indoor 3k at the end of his career. He had a long career and ran especially well in 82-83. But overall, he didn't deliver on his talent. Needed an Olympic medal of some color.
Webb shows signs of a big disconnect between talent and achievement. His collapse in the 07 WC final was especially horrendous.
My point is, we all know that Webb does have gold medal talent. But realizing this requires a lot more than possessing the talent.
Maybe AlSal's plan is to expose AW to the whipping when he's not in shape, to help him adjust to the competition and fire his mental toughness. This might help. But he also needs to develop a more self-absorbed
It's interesting to see that US sprinters rarely suffer from this complex. Jeremy Wariner, for example, hardly lacks mental toughness although he lacks maturity and can be an idiot in other ways. Tyson Gay, a class act and always tough. Unlike Webb, Tyson delivered bigtime in the 07 WC and won me some money. I knew he'd win.
It's like the US athletes have a split personality. Run anything more than 400, and feel inferior. This even happens in the brain of the same athlete who covers this huge conceptual divide: for example Mark Everett looked far more confident running a 44.5 400 than he did a 1:43 eight. Look at the thought process 400: my turf. I can win. 800: Kenyan, European, Moroccan turf, I can't win, can I...looks around anxiously at competitors.
His collapse in the 07 WC final was especially horrendous
No one who has watched the race could reasonably say this. He was positioned perfectly. Simply didn't have it that day and was probably a month outside of his best fitness that season. There was no 'collapse.'
jjjjjjjjj wrote:
This is an excellent race for Webb, because rather than spiraling into worse and worse performances following an initial disappointment indoors, he turned himself around completely. He ran 4 flat less than a month ago, improved a bit to 7:51, while still being beaten by collegians, then ran a poor 1:52 before pacing the mile, and now he runs 3:37, which is about a 3:54 equivalent and is right between Kiprop and Willis. This is a runner who was out with injuries for a long time, who came back only to 3:36 at the end of last season, and who struggled with illness and lack of confidence indoors. In 2007, he ran 3:51 mile in April and he's now not that far off of that. In his senior year of high school, he ran 3:59 indoors and 3:53 about three months later. So, I think that it's fair to say that webb's very much on track now to get back to his 2007 level, and I didn't think that I would be able to say that this year after his indoor campaign.
The 152 800m and the pace job that he did last week almost seemed like it was meant to be run as a workout and not a balls-out race...probably to conserve for this one.
He won't be back until he wins a big race. I'm not talkin' about winning some 3:41 type race against random dudes. I'm talkin' a Grand Prix, Golden League, USATF, or something else that has actual world class runners. I'm talkin' about a race with guys like Kiprop, Willis, Gregson, Riesley, Baala, Choge, and other dudes like that. That's what I'm talkin'.
savagesquid wrote:
Steve Scott and Alan Webb share an unfortunate trait among US MD runners which is a lack of self-confidence. It manifests in different ways.
Scott's achievements were moderate. He won a silver at the Worlds in 83, yes, and his 5th in the 88 final was good. He even beat Aouita in a sub-7:40 indoor 3k at the end of his career. He had a long career and ran especially well in 82-83. But overall, he didn't deliver on his talent. Needed an Olympic medal of some color.
Webb shows signs of a big disconnect between talent and achievement. His collapse in the 07 WC final was especially horrendous.
My point is, we all know that Webb does have gold medal talent. But realizing this requires a lot more than possessing the talent.
Maybe AlSal's plan is to expose AW to the whipping when he's not in shape, to help him adjust to the competition and fire his mental toughness. This might help. But he also needs to develop a more self-absorbed
It's interesting to see that US sprinters rarely suffer from this complex. Jeremy Wariner, for example, hardly lacks mental toughness although he lacks maturity and can be an idiot in other ways. Tyson Gay, a class act and always tough. Unlike Webb, Tyson delivered bigtime in the 07 WC and won me some money. I knew he'd win.
It's like the US athletes have a split personality. Run anything more than 400, and feel inferior. This even happens in the brain of the same athlete who covers this huge conceptual divide: for example Mark Everett looked far more confident running a 44.5 400 than he did a 1:43 eight. Look at the thought process 400: my turf. I can win. 800: Kenyan, European, Moroccan turf, I can't win, can I...looks around anxiously at competitors.
Do you even run distance races? You are comparing the mental toughness of a distance runner to a sprinter. It is a lot easier to be mentally tough for 9-43 seconds than it is for 3 min a 43 seconds. Also to say that he has gold medal talent in those terms means that he is physically the top person in the world. I don't think you can say that. Also look at the olympic and WC finals from the last 20 years for the 1500 and tell me that if they were all run 5 times they would have the same results. Yeah the same guy might win in some cases but the places behind are going to be very different.