The Tea Party is the morphed 60's era Ku Klux Klan. They want to slash Civil Servants and Teachers benefits but leave outlandish perks, salaries, pensions, retirements for Police, Fire, Congress, President, Governor, Pentagon, and Military. If effect the Tea Party does the 'divide and conquer' tactic against taxpayers.
SamuelAdams3 wrote:
Maybe this is too hopeful but Wisconsin, Ohio and Indiana all give me hope. Lets shut down the unions including their union work rules, high locked in fees/salaries, tenure, seniority, pensions, and their in the pocket politicians.
Its why America is no longer internationally competitive. They killed the auto industry among others (remember US steel) Lets close them ALL down. It won't be easy but we can do it.
I've never been a big union fan, but I'm also not a big fan of ignorance either and you are exhibiting the later in spades.
Let's look at the reason why the US isn't competitive. The biggest job loss has been in the areas of technical jobs. Both India and China, the places these jobs had gone have government subsidized education. So you want a level playing field, give free community college educations the same way India and China do.
Now the rest of what we're talking about is teachers. Yea, that's a really good idea to f**k over teachers. They're not teaching the gospel of Glenn Beck, so we need to fire their asses.
God forbid we'd have a whole bunch of highly educated people running around. If that happened a Republican wouldn't get elected or the next 50 years.
SamuelAdams3 wrote:
Unions vote against Republicans that have weakened this country.
Fixed.
I'll go along with ending public employee unions.
.....IF
(1) We end the ability of corporations to buy off politicians with lobbyists, political action committees, and bribery (campaign contributions).
(2) We end the ability of corrupt businesses like the Koch Brothers to set up front groups like the Tea Party.
(3) We end the ability of business to offshore jobs, import illegal aliens, and put up fake excuses for allowing H1B visas to avoid paying people who went to college and got degrees proper wages they would have to pay if businesses weren't directly intervening in supply/demand.
Again, FDR did not believe in public unions. What don't you libs get about this? And please don't give me the argument that there are bigger atrocities out there. There are, like wall st + politicians or defense contractors + politicians. However, that does not mean we should ignore other atrocities. Public unions are bankrupting or states and municipalities.
As a taxpayer we should want our money to go to essential goods and services we all use and for the welfare of those who really need it, not to public union leeches that already have salaries 30% higher than the rest of us and benefits 70% higher than the rest of us
check out this map of underfunded pensions. There is no way this is sustainable and I don't get why libs aren't smart enough to realize that. And before you attack me, I think defense spending should be cut at least 50% and I'll attack stupid Republicans for that in another thread
(The Nazi party) must declare war against the Marxist Trades Union, not only as an organization but, above all, as an idea.
-Mein Kampf
nobody cares about your conditions. unions will be swept under by the states. even the police / fire unions, and phony PORAC type of police mafias will be passe soon. immigrants will continue to civilize the usa and make it a better place. tea party, ku klux klan, wall st, corps, will battle for the crums. in the end we're all in for a massive lowering of expectations.
Name some countries that don't have public employee unions (or unions at all).
nonunion paradises wrote:
Name some countries that don't have public employee unions (or unions at all).
I'll bet they don't have any in Iran. Anybody want to move there?
Eric Idle wrote:
At your own peril.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgw0ar3J1B1qd0p40o1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1298269992&Signature=01UnllxtmVoCAjI8r88NSPkJGwY%3D
I guess we know where the people posting in conservative threads went to school.
GOP and PIGS wrote:
The Tea Party is the morphed 60's era Ku Klux Klan. They want to slash Civil Servants and Teachers benefits but leave outlandish perks, salaries, pensions, retirements for Police, Fire, Congress, President, Governor, Pentagon, and Military. If effect the Tea Party does the 'divide and conquer' tactic against taxpayers.
Do you just make up whatever bullshit occurs to you?
Two by Ayn Rand(1905-1982):
"The artificially high wages forced on the economy by ***compulsory*** unionism imposed economic hardships on other groups—particularly on non-union workers and on unskilled labor, which was being squeezed gradually out of the market. Today’s widespread unemployment is the result of organized labor’s privileges and of allied measures, such as minimum wage laws. For years, the unions supported these measures and sundry welfare legislation, apparently in the belief that the costs would be paid by taxes imposed on the rich. The growth of inflation has shown that the major victim of government spending and of taxation is the middle class. Organized labor is part of the middle class—and the actual value of labor’s forced “social gains” is now being wiped out."
"Organized labor has been much more sensitive to the danger of government power and much more aware of ideological issues. Its spokesmen have fought the government in proper, morally confident terms whenever they saw a threat to their rights. (To name a few examples of such occasions: the attempt at labor conscription in World War II, the issue of U.S. contributions to the Soviet-dominated International Labor Organization, President Kennedy’s attempt to impose guidelines in the steel crisis of 1962.) Labor’s concern was aroused only in defense of its rights; still, whoever defends his own rights defends the rights of all. But labor was pursuing a contradictory policy, which could not be maintained for long. In many issues—notably in its support of welfare-state legislation—labor violated the rights of others and fertilized the growth of the government’s power. ***And, today, labor is in line to become the next major victim of advancing statism.***
***It was business, not labor, that initiated the policy of government intervention in the economy (as long ago as the nineteenth century)—and business was the first victim. Labor adopted the same policy and will meet the same fate. He who lives by a legalized sword, will perish by a legalized sword.***"
Name some countries that don't have public employee unions (or unions at all).
Nazi countries like Israel and North Korea don't have trade unions.
Ugh. The issue is similar to legalizing pot. Its fine if you are for it or against it but the truth is its not going to solve things one way or another. Even if pro union people get their way, public employees are still going to suffer cutbacks in pay and/or benefits. If nothing else the money is just not going to be there. And if unions are broken, maybe state budgets are more easily balanced, but the economy is going to continually be dismal if everything else stays the same.
SamuelAdams3 wrote:
Maybe this is too hopeful but Wisconsin, Ohio and Indiana all give me hope. Lets shut down the unions including their union work rules, high locked in fees/salaries, tenure, seniority, pensions, and their in the pocket politicians.
Its why America is no longer internationally competitive. They killed the auto industry among others (remember US steel) Lets close them ALL down. It won't be easy but we can do it.
If I'm not mistaken, the salaries for public workers (at least in Wisconsin) actually decreased by 3% last year because of all the unpaid furlough days that have been instituted. Throw in the cuts that Walker is introducing, and you're looking at another 7-12% pay cut. To say that they're just cruising along would be a falsehood.
Yes, pay them all 50 cents an hour in a sweatshop and we can compete with China!
BTW workers in manufacturing produce everything we actually use while the rest of us do nothin valuable doing the computerised equivilant of shuffling papers all day
We have lost technical jobs to China and India. What do you think the average Chinese technical job pays? A hell of a lot less than in the US. The unions are why we have to pay tech guys so much.Get rid of the unions and let US companies pay them fair world level market value.Keith you miss really obvious points.
Keith Stone wrote:
SamuelAdams3 wrote:Maybe this is too hopeful but Wisconsin, Ohio and Indiana all give me hope. Lets shut down the unions including their union work rules, high locked in fees/salaries, tenure, seniority, pensions, and their in the pocket politicians.
Its why America is no longer internationally competitive. They killed the auto industry among others (remember US steel) Lets close them ALL down. It won't be easy but we can do it.
I've never been a big union fan, but I'm also not a big fan of ignorance either and you are exhibiting the later in spades.
Let's look at the reason why the US isn't competitive. The biggest job loss has been in the areas of technical jobs. Both India and China, the places these jobs had gone have government subsidized education. So you want a level playing field, give free community college educations the same way India and China do.
Now the rest of what we're talking about is teachers. Yea, that's a really good idea to f**k over teachers. They're not teaching the gospel of Glenn Beck, so we need to fire their asses.
God forbid we'd have a whole bunch of highly educated people running around. If that happened a Republican wouldn't get elected or the next 50 years.
Why stop at public unions? Unions have resulted in terms of employment and wages that weaken this country.
By focusing of public unions only you are not addressing the whole problem. Police and firemen need to be included too.
Then lets get rid of medicaid, cut food stamps by 90%, unemployment insurance, and breakfast programs given by schools.
There is sooo much waste and give aways. Its really crazy.
I know I'm falling for trollbait, but the per capita income in China is $6,800 per year when you account for purchasing power parity. The US produces over $46,000 per capita. Assuming that tech guys in both countries are both going to need to be paid about those respective amounts yearly and that you're a company who needs to have some dedicated customer service techs. What kind of shrewd businessman would pay $46,000 for when he could get something as good for $6,800? Even if the lack of a public sector union somehow magically made this tech guy's salary get slashed in three, he would STILL be more expensive to hire at 15,200 than the Chinese guy who can live a solid middle class life for just over half that newer "post-union" bull-shit figure.
Here's a dirty secret about outsourcing: it lowers costs A LOT. These costs get passed on to customers. Do you think most Americans want to see the prices of clothes increase by a factor or ten or more? Because I don't think getting rid of unions will be enough to get hourly wages down to the 1.00-1.50 per hour level, nor do I think Americans will be able to afford the goods they manufacture if they're trying to live off 10 bucks a day.
